Calculating the value of a unit for Rout % when adding mobs to your force selection

[nyczar]

Something I have "kind of" thought would be interesting to try, I have now seen as an embraced strategy by an opponent in league play: adding mobs to one's force selection to reduce the rout% value of your fighting units. Of course the mobs start hidden in a forest or immediately scamper to safety when the fight begins.

First my understanding on how rout percentage is calculated (I believe I learned this from the forum as I don't see it in the manual): The rout% value of a unit is the number of men in the unit divided by the total size of the army. Hence, for simplicity, if I have ten 480-man infantry units, when one routs the rout% value is 10%. But if one has eight 480-men infantry units, and two 1,000 man mobs, then the rout% value of losing one 480-man infantry reduces from 10% to 8.2% (480/5,240). In 1,600 point battles and larger, it seem viable to invest force points to reduce the rout value of your fighting front line units.

But the information I have to see if this is something I want to experiment with is incomplete. While it is easy to know the army value of an infantry unit, I don't think a 240 man cavalry unit only counts as a 240 man lost when routed (I think it is more). I have no idea what 20 elephants translates into nor chariots or light horse (just 120?).

Could the design masters please share this information or point to where a laymen can find it in the code so one can see? I very much want to do some calculating to see if a 30-45 force point mob investment makes sense in the context of helping to reduce the rout value of other units, making one 's fighting list more resilient.


And I assume that rout% value is set at the start....it doesn't change as the battle unfolds...That is, if you lose a 720 man pike unit at the start when your army is 100%, the rout value of the pike unit would be the same if you lost the 720 man unit when your army was reduce by casualties and routing to 80%?


Thanks in advance.

[Nosy_Rat]

First my understanding on how rout percentage is calculated (I believe I learned this from the forum as I don't see it in the manual): The rout% value of a unit is the number of men in the unit divided by the total size of the army. Hence, for simplicity, if I have ten 480-man infantry units, when one routs the rout% value is 10%. But if one has eight 480-men infantry units, and two 1,000 man mobs, then the rout% value of losing one 480-man infantry reduces from 10% to 8.2% (480/5,240). In 1,600 point battles and larger, it seem viable to invest force points to reduce the rout value of your fighting front line units.

But the information I have to see if this is something I want to experiment with is incomplete. While it is easy to know the army value of an infantry unit, I don't think a 240 man cavalry unit only counts as a 240 man lost when routed (I think it is more). I have no idea what 20 elephants translates into nor chariots or light horse (just 120?).

As far as I know all non-light default-sized units like cavalry, chariots and elephants are equal to the 480-men infantry unit in terms of rout percentage and lights are counted as half (or maybe less?) of that.

And I assume that rout% value is set at the start....it doesn't change as the battle unfolds...That is, if you lose a 720 man pike unit at the start when your army is 100%, the rout value of the pike unit would be the same if you lost the 720 man unit when your army was reduce by casualties and routing to 80%?

Yes, it's the percentage of your total force.

[dim30]

Interesting post. Nothing about this in the manual.
So no matter the point cost of the unit, only the number of men (or 480 for special troups like chariots). Ok. Mobs gain utility.

[Jagger2002]

I would have reservations about the strategy. Points spent on units that are useless in a fight means points not spent on units contributing to the fight. Maybe each unit lost results in a lower rout percentage but you will probably lose your frontline troops faster vs an opponent with all his points spent on fighting troops. Perhaps in special situations, it might be a good idea but I suspect those special situations are pretty rare.

[nyczar]

I would have reservations about the strategy. Points spent on units that are useless in a fight means points not spent on units contributing to the fight. Maybe each unit lost results in a lower rout percentage but you will probably lose your frontline troops faster vs an opponent with all his points spent on fighting troops. Perhaps in special situations, it might be a good idea but I suspect those special situations are pretty rare.

Yes, Mobs dont fight but the theory in play does involve a contribution to the fight. That's why I want to model it and see the impact. But other than Nosy_Rat sharing what he thinks, the design overlords are silent (hint hint). If one has has a heavy inf based list, may be better to get that flank covered with a Raw or Medium unit to help there or to act as a reserve. If one has a cheap infantry list, might be worth it to make your list last longer looking for that one flank that breaks it all open...

In FOGM, mu understanding is that the Standard Wagon is designed to impact rout percentage in a similar way that we are discussing. I hear that it is worth 2.5 "normal" units in calculating rout% values. I have a game now where I am seeing how this works as it is not automatic. However, that unit costs 79 force points. With three mobs, at 45 points, they are equivalent to 6 units so while I agree you have to be careful, it needs further exploration.

Ugg, invest my limited spreadsheet research bandwidth to make a projection for a business plan at work (due soon) or dive into this question to develop a formal opinion.....luxury problems.

[pinwolf]

From viewtopic.php?f=477&t=92282

I feel like it's not completely based on size since a unit of 20 elephants definitely contribute more than 1% score.

It is based on UnitSize, not TotalMen, Elephants have a UnitSize of 400. They then (like cavalry) get a 3/2 multiplier.

This means they are the same % for rout purposes as a 600 UnitSize infantry unit (480 men) - or a 400 UnitSize cavalry unit (240 men).

i.e. For rout % purposes: 480 infantry = 240 cavalry = 20 elephants.

[rbodleyscott]

The rout % value of a unit is calculated from the "UnitSize" of the unit, which is an internal "combat strength" value not reported in the UI. You can see it in the /Data/Squads.xlsx file.

Mounted units and elephants have their UnitSize value multiplied by 1.5 for this purpose.

Normal 480 man infantry units have a UnitSize of 600, and most non-light cavalry and elephants have an UnitSize of 400, making those all equal for rout % purposes.

Light troops tend to have half the UnitSize of standard non-light units, making them worth half as much for rout %.

Mobs have UnitSize 750, making them equivalent to 1.25 standard infantry units for rout % purposes, not 2.13 as it would be if it was calculated from the number of men (1024).

[nyczar]

Thank you RBS!

Edit, I actually managed to find the spreadsheet and it is easier than I thought to model this. Just 7 "Unit Size" types.