Playing the GC w/o heros.

[David Hansen]

Getting ready to start the GC adventure beginning with SCW. Choosing to play tactically and not the farming method via the Power Four...General difficulty setting.
My choices have been narrowed down to:
*Industry Connections
*Operational Initiative.
*Master of Blitz.
*Perimeter of Control
*Deadly Grasp.
*Terrain Expert.
*Trench Slog (I use pioneers exclusively)
*Slow Modernization.
With so many missions...heros(IMO) are going to become so plentiful as to destroy the balance of the GC vs. the vanilla 1939 campaign with 20+ scenarios.
So...looking for opinions of players with experience thru SCW...1939...1940...if I don't employ heros, what impact might this choice have:
*bump the difficulty level up by one?
*worth maybe 1-2 extra commander points?
*other considerations?
Opinions welcomed.
TXS.

[R2G2]

You can re-choose your commander trait points at the beginning of each GC DLC. SCW involves supporting an infantry force that you have limited control over, so take that into account. FYI... the Spanish AI will ruin a large amount of your surrender attempts.

Personally, I feel heroes add flavor to the game. The imbalance issue comes from the fact you can stack 3 on one unit. I'd suggest taking Force Dispersion instead of no heroes. One hero per unit will prevent you from making demigod units. This will also allow you to sell heroes if you run into prestige issues.

The main problem with the Power 4 is they are too cheap for commander trait points. If you want to use them guilt free, subtract 2-3 commander trait points. Best of luck!

[davida]

I would add the "Aggressive deployment" trait to your choices. Maybe instead of industry connections, I still managed to capture enough equipement in SCW.

Also, I personally find the combination of "force dispersion" and "force concentration" a good solution to the hero dilemma. I simply don't want to play without any heroes, they are the ones that make units unique. With these two traits combined, 2 heroes are allowed per unit, which at least stops the overkill a bit.

[FunPolice749]

I've played from the start without any heroes all the way to AO 40. I also play on Generalissimus and didn't take the power 4 traits to rake in billions of prestige.
It's honestly way more fun because you got to be a lot more tactical with everything. No more uber units that kill 5 units each turn, no free core slot units, and any other combo. You gotta play it very straight and be extremely cautious because you don't have many edges over the enemy anymore. In fact when you start facing enemy heroes you're even at a disadvantage. Like in AO40 I couldn't really stand up to De Gaulles Armored Divsion and had to always have 88s and several stuka just to even stand a chance. It was great fun and for anyone that finds the game boring because it's to easy this change can really alter how you view the game.

[Tassadar]

Industry Connections is fun, but mostly when you have a few spare points. It can arguably be skipped in SCW due to the fact you will likely get at least several Italian prototypes that you can only use as auxiliary forces.

Slow Modernization is also quite fun - while it seems that you will have all the time in the world to make upgrades there are a few scenarios where a lot is available at once, making these decisions interesting. Still, it's less of a flaw than it was in the core campaign.

If you're afraid of balance being affected by heroes, I'd say the advice already given by others to use Force Dispersion is a good one - no combos possible this way and even best heroes have more limited impact.

Another option for removing the hero issue from the equation is to dismiss each non-unique hero (the ones you get at the start of the mission) and just keep special ones you trade for commendation points.

[Kerensky]

I've played from the start without any heroes all the way to AO 40. I also play on Generalissimus and didn't take the power 4 traits to rake in billions of prestige.
It's honestly way more fun because you got to be a lot more tactical with everything. No more uber units that kill 5 units each turn, no free core slot units, and any other combo. You gotta play it very straight and be extremely cautious because you don't have many edges over the enemy anymore. In fact when you start facing enemy heroes you're even at a disadvantage. Like in AO40 I couldn't really stand up to De Gaulles Armored Divsion and had to always have 88s and several stuka just to even stand a chance. It was great fun and for anyone that finds the game boring because it's to easy this change can really alter how you view the game.

Not to act as the real 'Fun Police' here... but this is really by design. All of the crazy amount of options and difficulty modes and special challenges and both positive and negative traits... all of it is there for each individual player to fine tune their experience to what they define as 'fun'.

It's why I always hesitate on feedback that wants the game to be harder with a deadlier AI. I mean, you can already make the game mathematically impossible to play by turning on every Special Challenge and every Negative Trait and play on Maximum Difficulty...

But no one does that, because pretty much no one thinks of that as fun. So I'm glad to hear you have find your own formula for fun within all of the levers to adjust the content that exist in the game.

[David Hansen]

TKS to all!
I decided to take the neg trait to limit one hero per unit.
Like FunPolice749...I too want to play a very tactical campaign...the Power Four... not my cup of tea.
I did D/L the mod from the steam workshop thats allows me the ability to buy/control my own core infantry and not let the AI do its thing...otherwise I would skip the SCW and start with 1939 AO.

[eddieballgame]

I've played from the start without any heroes all the way to AO 40. I also play on Generalissimus and didn't take the power 4 traits to rake in billions of prestige.
It's honestly way more fun because you got to be a lot more tactical with everything. No more uber units that kill 5 units each turn, no free core slot units, and any other combo. You gotta play it very straight and be extremely cautious because you don't have many edges over the enemy anymore. In fact when you start facing enemy heroes you're even at a disadvantage. Like in AO40 I couldn't really stand up to De Gaulles Armored Divsion and had to always have 88s and several stuka just to even stand a chance. It was great fun and for anyone that finds the game boring because it's to easy this change can really alter how you view the game.

Not to act as the real 'Fun Police' here... but this is really by design. All of the crazy amount of options and difficulty modes and special challenges and both positive and negative traits... all of it is there for each individual player to fine tune their experience to what they define as 'fun'.

It's why I always hesitate on feedback that wants the game to be harder with a deadlier AI. I mean, you can already make the game mathematically impossible to play by turning on every Special Challenge and every Negative Trait and play on Maximum Difficulty...

But no one does that, because pretty much no one thinks of that as fun. So I'm glad to hear you have find your own formula for fun within all of the levers to adjust the content that exist in the game.

Great response.

[Kerensky]

TKS to all!
I decided to take the neg trait to limit one hero per unit.
Like FunPolice749...I too want to play a very tactical campaign...the Power Four... not my cup of tea.
I did D/L the mod from the steam workshop thats allows me the ability to buy/control my own core infantry and not let the AI do its thing...otherwise I would skip the SCW and start with 1939 AO.

Some extra explanation on the various hero options:

https://steamcommunity.com/app/1072040/ ... 747298456/

[Moransky]

I think that heroes is one the few positive features of the game. But I respect gamers who like to play withour positive features.

[Bee1976]

Heroes are indeed one real source of fun for me in the base game and in the gc.

I dont think its game breaking or fun killing to play with them. Its historical correct to have units that are way stronger, than others using the same equipment. Soldiers like Abukhadzhi Idrisov or Rudel made a diffrence on the battlefield.

But i think it would be fun to adjust enemy amount of heroes during a campaign, like 25% of your heroes, 50% 75% 100% up to 200%. I think it would be fun to face an enemy with 24 heroes when your own core only got 12.

[Kerensky]

Heroes are indeed one real source of fun for me in the base game and in the gc.

I dont think its game breaking or fun killing to play with them. Its historical correct to have units that are way stronger, than others using the same equipment. Soldiers like Abukhadzhi Idrisov or Rudel made a diffrence on the battlefield.

But i think it would be fun to adjust enemy amount of heroes during a campaign, like 25% of your heroes, 50% 75% 100% up to 200%. I think it would be fun to face an enemy with 24 heroes when your own core only got 12.

When you start a new campaign, you can pick Special Challenges in the advanced options menu. At the very bottom of the Special Challenges, the new 'Heroic Showdown' option is pretty much what you are asking for. Because it is all random, it actually balances out somewhat nicely. Most enemy units will get a hero that has very little or no effect at all... but other times really powerful heroes can land on very powerful units and make a dramatic impact.

Plus the amount of Prestige per Turn heroes the AI will random into will mean they have unlimited prestige for replacements. This is felt especially hard in scenarios where they normally have very little prestige, such as the Dunkirk air only special battle.

[Bee1976]

At the very bottom of the Special Challenges, the new 'Heroic Showdown' option is pretty much what you are asking for. Because it is all random, it actually balances out somewhat nicely. Most enemy units will get a hero that has very little or no effect at all... but other times really powerful heroes can land on very powerful units and make a dramatic impact.

wow...seems i have overlooked this. Thx dude