First Time Army - Principate Roman

Omar · Post by **Omar** » Sun Oct 26, 2008 6:38 am

First time making a list, so please let me know how it looks. I am going for an army typical of that of Emperor Trajan during or after the Dacian Wars. To that end, he will be leading the troops on the field, and I intend to paint a unit of Legionaries as Praetorians. Anyway, I will try to put what is supposed to be what in the list.

IC (Emperor Trajan)
2XTC

2 Legionaries (6) - Superior
1 Legionaries (8) - Superior [Praetorians]
2 Aux Ft (4) - Average
2 Allied Archers (4) - Superior [Attached to the 2 Aux Ft]
1 Aux Cav (4) - Average
1 Allied Archers (6)
1 Equities Sagittarii (4) - Average
1 Catafractarii (4) - Superior [Praetorian Cavalry]
1 Slingers (6) - Average
1 Ballista/Light Artillery (2)

I put it at 606 points. 650 is probably going to be the group 'standard'. Not sure what to add in.

Not exactly sure what Equities Sagittarii or Catafractarii are in period. I planned to have the center line of Praetorians with the other Legionaries with them (if the terrain allows such a wide line). On the flank will be the Aux Ft and Archer groups. In front will be the Allied Archers and Slingers (LF) to screen and (hopefully) soften them up before falling back. The Cav will be on the flanks to harass and follow, maybe break through and sack a camp. The Ballista are there because I like artillery, and I think putting them on a flank to 'discourage' them from messing with it seemed prudent. Maybe replace them with heavy artillery, or add some in?

Still new to this, so let me know if you see any glaring mistakes with the list or something that needs to be added/modified.

Thanks!

Edit: Maybe a Praetorian Prefect instead of Trajan, so possibly a Field Commander instead. I cant see the Emperor fighting on the front line, which is where I intend to have the C-in-C (for the battle line).

Phaze_of_the_Moon · Post by **Phaze_of_the_Moon** » Mon Oct 27, 2008 12:40 pm

Will the group be in period or anything goes? It makes a difference.

I'd skip the artillery either case.

Omar · Post by **Omar** » Mon Oct 27, 2008 4:33 pm

I would like for it to be close to period... but am willing to take things that are 'unlikely'.

Drop the artillery? I would think they would be good at holding a flank.

nikgaukroger · Post by **nikgaukroger** » Mon Oct 27, 2008 7:30 pm

Nope, they will just be am easy target that can't get away ...

Omar · Post by **Omar** » Mon Oct 27, 2008 7:41 pm

Oh. Well, going to buy a couple models for the Light Artillery all the same. I was thinking artillery was the end all-be all of shooting in FoG. I know that when faced with guns (or whatever) I try to avoid them.

So, what else can I put in there? Is it lacking anything? Are my plans/tactics sound?

grahambriggs · Post by **grahambriggs** » Tue Oct 28, 2008 11:25 am

Omar wrote:Oh. Well, going to buy a couple models for the Light Artillery all the same. I was thinking artillery was the end all-be all of shooting in FoG. I know that when faced with guns (or whatever) I try to avoid them.

So, what else can I put in there? Is it lacking anything? Are my plans/tactics sound?

I agree that the artillery are a bit of a luxury but other than that the tactics seem sound. The main thing here is to get the main part of the army, the heavy foot, into the enemy. Everyone else is the support cast. With that in mind I would drop the sissy cataphracts (an effete Eastern troop type if ever there was one) and bulk up on legionaries.

Putting the TCs with the legion to fight would be my plan.

philqw78 · Post by **philqw78** » Tue Oct 28, 2008 11:32 am

an effete Eastern troop type

Effete and eastern, Hmmm, Immortals?

Omar · Post by **Omar** » Tue Oct 28, 2008 4:21 pm

grahambriggs wrote:I agree that the artillery are a bit of a luxury but other than that the tactics seem sound. The main thing here is to get the main part of the army, the heavy foot, into the enemy. Everyone else is the support cast. With that in mind I would drop the sissy cataphracts (an effete Eastern troop type if ever there was one) and bulk up on legionaries.

Putting the TCs with the legion to fight would be my plan.

I was bringing the cataphracts as a 'counts as' for the Equities Singulares Augusti, the mounted Praetorians, who seemed to pretty well armored (represented as Cav/Armored/Lancers - not Cataphracts, which are later in the list). Using the Elite:50 The Praetorian Guard as my guide for alot of this.

I will work on a list later today, see what else I can come up with. Drop the artillery (the heavy anyway) and get more legionaries? I thought I had too many and they would end up in each others way.

I was going to put the FC/IC on the line to keep it together (the TC command range wont allow me to have a wide line), though I suppose I could do two lines, one with each TC.

Looking forward to buying the models and painting this army up.

david53 · Post by **david53** » Wed Oct 29, 2008 7:15 am

Omar wrote:
grahambriggs wrote:I agree that the artillery are a bit of a luxury but other than that the tactics seem sound. The main thing here is to get the main part of the army, the heavy foot, into the enemy. Everyone else is the support cast. With that in mind I would drop the sissy cataphracts (an effete Eastern troop type if ever there was one) and bulk up on legionaries.

Putting the TCs with the legion to fight would be my plan.
I was bringing the cataphracts as a 'counts as' for the Equities Singulares Augusti, the mounted Praetorians, who seemed to pretty well armored (represented as Cav/Armored/Lancers - not Cataphracts, which are later in the list). Using the Elite:50 The Praetorian Guard as my guide for alot of this.

I will work on a list later today, see what else I can come up with. Drop the artillery (the heavy anyway) and get more legionaries? I thought I had too many and they would end up in each others way.

I was going to put the FC/IC on the line to keep it together (the TC command range wont allow me to have a wide line), though I suppose I could do two lines, one with each TC.

Looking forward to buying the models and painting this army up.

I would as stated drop the artillery drop the cavalry bulk up on foot they are the winner in this army, keep them tight together and keep moving forward. In the end you'll hit what your aiming at.
Dave

Omar · Post by **Omar** » Thu Oct 30, 2008 1:43 am

Ok, taking the advice I have received, I came up with the following:

FC (Praetorian Prefect)
2XTC

Legionaries-Superior (8)
Legionaries-Superior (8)
Legionaries-Superior (6)
Auxillary-MF (4)
Auxillary-MF (4)
Auxillary Cavalry-Average (4)
Auxillary Archers (8)
Equites Sagittarii-Average (4)
Slingers-Poor (4)

Originally I had a fairly nice list, then noticed I didnt include any commanders. Would of liked to have brought some Allied Archers instead of the Slingers, as both a LF Screen and for the range, but you make do. Also would of liked the Equities Singulares Augusti (Catafractarii), but that had to go as well. At 650, cant bring as much as I had originally thought.

My plan is to make a line with the two 8 base Leg Units, maybe with the other 6 Leg unit as well, with the FC in command. The Auxillary will be on the flanks to deal with any LF who might want to harass me. The Cav/LH to support them. Equities Sag will run up and harass the enemy, with the slingers as a screen ahead of the legion.

Issues I can see are heavy terrain boards, which will make it very difficult to march a line of legionaries across the table. Mobile armies are going to be hard for me to pin down.

If this was bumped up to 750pts (probably the largest we will go for now) I will remove the slingers and add the following:

Allied Archers (8)
Equ Sing Aug-Superior (4)

That would bring it to just under 750. The only change in strategy would be to have the Allied Archers replace the Slingers, and the Equities to back up the Cavalry on either flank to punch into enemy formations after they are softened up a bit, or to pin down a unit to get my legions get ahold of them.

Opinions?

Omar · Post by **Omar** » Thu Oct 30, 2008 1:57 am

I had 790pts worth of stuff in the first list.. not 650. THAT is why it seems like I lost alot.

grahambriggs · Post by **grahambriggs** » Thu Oct 30, 2008 11:55 am

Omar wrote:
grahambriggs wrote:I agree that the artillery are a bit of a luxury but other than that the tactics seem sound. The main thing here is to get the main part of the army, the heavy foot, into the enemy. Everyone else is the support cast. With that in mind I would drop the sissy cataphracts (an effete Eastern troop type if ever there was one) and bulk up on legionaries.

Putting the TCs with the legion to fight would be my plan.
I will work on a list later today, see what else I can come up with. Drop the artillery (the heavy anyway) and get more legionaries? I thought I had too many and they would end up in each others way.

If I'm counting correctly heavy foot make up less than a third of your bases. I don't think that's enough since they are your strongest troops.

Omar · Post by **Omar** » Thu Oct 30, 2008 4:45 pm

grahambriggs wrote:If I'm counting correctly heavy foot make up less than a third of your bases. I don't think that's enough since they are your strongest troops.

Check the revised list.

HF - 22 bases
MF - 16
LF - 4
Cav - 4
LH - 4

paulburton · Post by **paulburton** » Wed May 27, 2009 7:25 pm

My choice for Principate Romans (I use them as Auguustan period under Tiberius as I can identify sub commanders) is for a core battle line of 6 BGs of 4 Superior Legionaries. I deploy these 4 forward (deployed 2 deep) and 2 in the second line (1 deep). The combination of support and commanders makes the front line very difficult to shift. Commanders join units but do not fight - This is what the Roman Tactical Manuals say and it works well for keeping your battle line intact.

The second line can always deploy to the flank if needed.

The equites seem fairly pointless and the light infantry are just targets - when I use them they just get run over - I will try without them in future - they do very little for the cost of another BG of Legionaries. The light horse are quite useful though. I haven't bothered with Auxiliary Archers - not enough to make much difference and you can't interpenetrate to protect them. Auxilia probably ought to be HF (Tacitus' description of Mons Graupius really suggests this), but a couple of MF units can be handy (I am using 6s at present but may trim to 4 or a mixture).

You will always struggle against drilled cavalry. Still, they have to kill you so secure flanks, make them come close and launch charges - you will catch some. Don't worry about the camp - it is fortified so won't crack easily.

Batavian Allies with Germanicus are entertaining and if you really want Lancers then have some Sarmatian Allies.

philqw78 · Post by **philqw78** » Thu May 28, 2009 6:10 am

paulburton wrote:Auxilia probably ought to be HF (Tacitus' description of Mons Graupius really suggests this).

I thought a lot of the fighting here was over rough ground?

shall · Post by **shall** » Thu May 28, 2009 7:17 am

FC (Praetorian Prefect)
2XTC

Legionaries-Superior (8)
Legionaries-Superior (8)
Legionaries-Superior (6)
Auxillary-MF (4)
Auxillary-MF (4)
Auxillary Cavalry-Average (4)
Auxillary Archers (8)
Equites Sagittarii-Average (4)
Slingers-Poor (4)

Looks good. For me I would drop a legionar7 8 down to 2 x 4s to gain a BG. This then also gives you potential to use one 4 as rear support to the 8 and 6. Or you can put the 4s on the edges for greater mobility. In practice with the Romans you are likely to only risk 1 general in combat so 1 8 is enough. gets you to 10BGs which makes it tougher. If you can find a way make the Cv Sup as then they can be rear support instead. even if you have to drop them to Protected - can't emember the specific list well enough I'm afraid.

Have fun

Si

Fulgrim · Post by **Fulgrim** » Thu May 28, 2009 7:44 am

I find superior legionaries in BG:s of 8 to much. And i also think fours are to small. I field mine in a comp (800pts) a while ago like this:

1x6 Armoured superior
1x6 Protected superior (will probably go for armoured next time, theese ware tailored to fight Knights which makes armoured wasted points) + 1x3 supporting archers
1x4 Armoured superior + 1x2 supporting archers
1x4 Armoured superior + 1x2 supporting archers

The Aux Cv really benefits from bing superior, had it 2x2 most of the time with a general attached (had 4xTC and used them in the frontline almost the whole the time - lost 5 in 4 games..). They are very agile, CMT:s are no problems basically, and hit hard - especially since you get the mobility to flank/rear attack alot.

I think you should have the Aux archers in 2x4 instead - gives you another BG and making them more mobile - you will never win a shooting contest with this army, use them to flush out LF, or to get to the enemys flanks. 2x4 working togeather with the LH can be a real pain to enemy LH aswell. I am a bit reluctant to include them again but they are pretty cheap so Im a bit at a loss how to do.

IanB3406 · Post by **IanB3406** » Thu May 28, 2009 9:59 am

I tried a combined arms approach with these guys, but it maybe weakens the legions too much. Haven't played it yet...

1*IC
2*TC
3*4 Armoured Sup Legions with 3*2 supporting archers.
1*4 Armoured Sup Cav Lancers
1*4 Armoured Average Cav Light Spear Sword
2*4 LH Unp Bow
3*4 MF Arm Average Lt sp/sw
1*4 MF Arm Superior Lt/sp/ssw
2*4 MF Prot Average Bow
1*4 poor slingers
1*4 Avg Javelin.
15 battlegroups