Free France Campaign

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bru888
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Re: Free France Campaign

Post by bru888 »

bru888 wrote: Fri Feb 12, 2021 5:44 pm It's always a good feeling to find a superior battle map:

template.jpg
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calculate the equivalent X-Y hex ratio (in this case, 43 by 50 hexes):

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and have the template slot in beautifully in the editor:

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"Et voilà," as the Colonel would say. :)

There's hope for me and this campaign yet. :roll:

A FINISHED MAP in only ONE DAY! :shock:

Finished Map.jpg
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- Bru
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Re: Free France Campaign

Post by GabeKnight »

This campaign of yours is quite hard, my friend, even on middle difficulty. Sure, I've won all of them without using any cheats, but some on the very last turn. On MIDDLE difficulty! On the LAST turn! :shock:

The Free-French (my core faction) has more than enough RPs (don't forget that the game refunds half of the RPs spent on aux. units after each scen!), but I think it's a bit harsh that all my other allied factions start without any RPs. (they should have at least a small amount from turn one on IMO)
And it would have been really helpful if the British RP pool would carry over in the campaign...

Very long playing times because of the large maps (what else to expect from 60-turn monster-missions :wink: ). Played quite good though, enough enemy resistance everywhere to keep me busy. Just some minor instances of large portions of my armies to be moved without anything else to do (that's what I hate most with huge maps).

And I know the reasons and limitations of the FF faction and why you didn't use no core units, but I STRONGLY suggest - regardless - to add (very few) core units for the player to "pamper". It could be a recon unit (didn't my forces capture one in the first scen?), mountain arty, AA or some weak tank or even one inf. unit. Of course it would be "un-upgradeable" and will become obsolete somewhere along the following years, but that aspect of my core-army is really missing for the feeling of a real OoB "campaign" IMO...

So far so good, now comes the unpleasant part of this comment:

I don't know if you did not play this campaign yourself or just made too many revisions after the Colonel's comments, but if that's the case, I strongly suggest you do with the current build...

Not sure if you're really happy how the "04Keren" scen plays. I don't mean triggers, but gameplay balance and fun-factor. The beginning of this scen was SUPER frustrating (same for the next one, BTW). No progress, almost no arty or engineers against fully entrenched enemy units in high cover terrain with seemingly endless RP reserves. They were sitting on their river banks doing nothing but repair themselves. Maybe it's historical, I don't know, but it's no fun if there is no progress and advance (during a non-defensive scen!) for about 10-15 turns or so.

Similar with "The capture of Kufra": taking the fort is super annoying. Only one attack hex with no room to advance (or retreat!). I have only two arty. The strat bombers are nice, but with two AA firing at them and no money to repair them, they're usefulness is limited. Too much supply inside the fort to try the "strategic bombing" approach, either. The Italians have like a handful of units but a ton of RP to repair them and to rest battered units. Seriously, play it yourself, it's frustrating. Slow - almost no progress whatsoever. It takes about 15-20 turns to kill six units...while the rest of the map is already defeated.

At "05OperationExporter" I'd suggest to delay some waves of the enemy planes for some turns (3-5). Yes, it's doable after a few turns (and after my reinforcement arrive), but the initial aerial attack is just too much IMO.
And there's also a funny trigger error in this one: One of the forts I'm supposed to attack with infantry only - but even if the obj.'s failed because I've used a recon or arty unit on it, destroying the fort still enables a "success" (it's because you forgot to deactivate the win trigger with every corresponding fail trigger :wink: )

Overall I found only one "tactic" to be working alright, and it's the same as with Erik's scens: The only viable way to defeat any enemy units is to cut their supply and restrict their ability to repair. Even if I have to move my units in huge "circles" around the (mostly) static defending enemy units. That's not fighting, it's circumventing... :?
ColonelY
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Re: Free France Campaign

Post by ColonelY »

GabeKnight wrote: Sat Feb 13, 2021 6:39 am This campaign of yours is quite hard, my friend, even on middle difficulty. Sure, I've won all of them without using any cheats, but some on the very last turn. On MIDDLE difficulty! On the LAST turn! :shock:
But it's designed (if I'm not mistaken) to be played on middle difficulty, yes. And to be challenging. So, that's fine like this, isn't it?

The Free-French (my core faction) has more than enough RPs (don't forget that the game refunds half of the RPs spent on aux. units after each scen!), but I think it's a bit harsh that all my other allied factions start without any RPs. (they should have at least a small amount from turn one on IMO)
And it would have been really helpful if the British RP pool would carry over in the campaign...
The British pool carried over in the campaign? Well, I would say the are fighting their own battles somewhere else as well and we're focusing anyway on the Free French, so... :|
Adding a small amount of RPs from start for other allied factions? That's a good idea! :D
The game refunds half of the RPs spent on aux units after each scen?! Good to know, thanks. 8) Then the Free French income should be slightly reduced in all scenarios (except the very first one, of course.) :wink:


Very long playing times because of the large maps (what else to expect from 60-turn monster-missions :wink: ). Played quite good though, enough enemy resistance everywhere to keep me busy. Just some minor instances of large portions of my armies to be moved without anything else to do (that's what I hate most with huge maps).
So, good action, good balance! :D

And I know the reasons and limitations of the FF faction and why you didn't use no core units, but I STRONGLY suggest - regardless - to add (very few) core units for the player to "pamper". It could be a recon unit (didn't my forces capture one in the first scen?), mountain arty, AA or some weak tank or even one inf. unit. Of course it would be "un-upgradeable" and will become obsolete somewhere along the following years, but that aspect of my core-army is really missing for the feeling of a real OoB "campaign" IMO...
Well, it has already been discussed... :?

So far so good, now comes the unpleasant part of this comment:

I don't know if you did not play this campaign yourself or just made too many revisions after the Colonel's comments, but if that's the case, I strongly suggest you do with the current build...
Here, I'm not sure I understood everything perfectly well, but it could be interpreted as if you thought I was (often) giving bad advice... :shock: Well, I'll pretend nothing happened! :roll: :lol: :wink:

Not sure if you're really happy how the "04Keren" scen plays. I don't mean triggers, but gameplay balance and fun-factor. The beginning of this scen was SUPER frustrating (same for the next one, BTW). No progress, almost no arty or engineers against fully entrenched enemy units in high cover terrain with seemingly endless RP reserves. They were sitting on their river banks doing nothing but repair themselves. Maybe it's historical, I don't know, but it's no fun if there is no progress and advance (during a non-defensive scen!) for about 10-15 turns or so.
:o Well, you're certainly mentionning more the northern parts of this scenario... you know, it's historical and on purpose, to delay the two northern groups, to prevent them closing-in too early on Massawa.
The other allied groups should make a nice progress anyway, so...
:wink:

Similar with "The capture of Kufra": taking the fort is super annoying. Only one attack hex with no room to advance (or retreat!). I have only two arty. The strat bombers are nice, but with two AA firing at them and no money to repair them, they're usefulness is limited. Too much supply inside the fort to try the "strategic bombing" approach, either. The Italians have like a handful of units but a ton of RP to repair them and to rest battered units. Seriously, play it yourself, it's frustrating. Slow - almost no progress whatsoever. It takes about 15-20 turns to kill six units...while the rest of the map is already defeated.
Historically, taking this fort was more like a (tricky but) real siege instead than a rush... so, you've to take some time, why not? :)
:!: What, no money to repair the strat bombers? Well, that's not intended and should then be corrected... 8)

At "05OperationExporter" I'd suggest to delay some waves of the enemy planes for some turns (3-5). Yes, it's doable after a few turns (and after my reinforcement arrive), but the initial aerial attack is just too much IMO.
And there's also a funny trigger error in this one: One of the forts I'm supposed to attack with infantry only - but even if the obj.'s failed because I've used a recon or arty unit on it, destroying the fort still enables a "success" (it's because you forgot to deactivate the win trigger with every corresponding fail trigger :wink: )
:arrow: Two good points, I would say! (Well, not exactly the TWO of them... see my next post please - sorry for this little inconvenience.) Thanks. :D

Overall I found only one "tactic" to be working alright, and it's the same as with Erik's scens: The only viable way to defeat any enemy units is to cut their supply and restrict their ability to repair. Even if I have to move my units in huge "circles" around the (mostly) static defending enemy units. That's not fighting, it's circumventing... :?
Only one single tactic found working "alright"?! :shock: :| I hope you should be joking. :lol: And I'd thought to understood you got used to play on higher difficulties than regular, normal, standard, in short on "middle" difficulty?! :twisted:( :wink: ) (Well, we may be now even! :lol: )

The same as with Erik scens?! :o Well, then you should already have used to it, right, and found some cool opportunities of action! :wink: So that shouldn't be a problem at all. 8)

No worries, though, as in "07OperationLilaDenied" the supply don't matter at all (or almost). And "06BirHakeim" is a completely different kind of battle as we're defending that time! :D
:wink:
Last edited by ColonelY on Sun Feb 14, 2021 9:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
terminator
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Re: Free France Campaign

Post by terminator »

Dakar Oil Company VH = Open Terrain => Concealable impossible for Heavy Infantry

Capture d’écran (1988).jpg
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ColonelY
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Re: Free France Campaign

Post by ColonelY »

ColonelY wrote: Sat Feb 13, 2021 2:55 pm
GabeKnight wrote: Sat Feb 13, 2021 6:39 am This campaign of yours is quite hard, my friend, even on middle difficulty.

[...] At "05OperationExporter" I'd suggest to delay some waves of the enemy planes for some turns (3-5). Yes, it's doable after a few turns (and after my reinforcement arrive), but the initial aerial attack is just too much IMO.
And there's also a funny trigger error in this one: One of the forts I'm supposed to attack with infantry only - but even if the obj.'s failed because I've used a recon or arty unit on it, destroying the fort still enables a "success" (it's because you forgot to deactivate the win trigger with every corresponding fail trigger :wink: )
:arrow: Two good points, I would say! Thanks. :D
[...][/color]
:wink:
:!: Correction (sorry about that): No, I wouldn't change at all the aerial battle in Operation Exporter! :arrow: It's challenging on purpose and, as Gabe precise it, perfectly doable anyway. Even "after a few turns", we've plenty of them, so... :wink:

:oops: My bad, sorry, as I've made a confusion between the Operation Exporter and the Bir Hakeim scenarios. This last one has had its aeriel components a little reworked as it was too easy, though I was thinking that it may now be perhaps too difficult (even if I don't think so), and so with Gabe comment and being a little short on time... :roll: And from the fact that I actually don't remember now whether I've played the very last version of Bir Hakeim already or not. :?
Last edited by ColonelY on Sun Feb 14, 2021 1:30 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Free France Campaign

Post by ColonelY »

:!: :shock: :lol:
ColonelY wrote: Sat Feb 13, 2021 2:55 pm
GabeKnight wrote: Sat Feb 13, 2021 6:39 am This campaign of yours is quite hard[...]

Not sure if you're really happy how the "04Keren" scen plays. I don't mean triggers, but gameplay balance and fun-factor. The beginning of this scen was SUPER frustrating (same for the next one, BTW). No progress, almost no arty or engineers against fully entrenched enemy units in high cover terrain with seemingly endless RP reserves. They were sitting on their river banks doing nothing but repair themselves. Maybe it's historical, I don't know, but it's no fun if there is no progress and advance (during a non-defensive scen!) for about 10-15 turns or so.
:o Well, you're certainly mentionning more the northern parts of this scenario... you know, it's historical and on purpose, to delay the two northern groups, to prevent them closing-in too early on Massawa.
The other allied groups should make a nice progress anyway, so...
:wink:

[...][/color]
:wink:
'Thinking back to what has been written, I wanted to check something...

:shock: "almost no arty or engineers" :lol: Damn! :?
:arrow: Sorry, but that's quite wrong! :wink:
1. You've engineers with almost all starting group,
2. You've many artillery units to be deployed where you want, as well as many tank units to be deployed as well! (And some of them already on map.) These units are in the reserve pool and it's clearly explained... but, of course, one has then to read :roll: the available info, that's for sure! :lol: :evil: ( :wink: )

I've counted 7 engineers units on map, 4 artillery units left to be deployed (as well as 7 tank units and 3 AA to be deployed as well) => so now "no arty or engineers" :lol: well, well, that's not serious at all! 8)

"No progress, almost no arty or engineers against fully entrenched enemy units in high cover terrain with seemingly endless RP reserves."
-> No progress? :shock: Use the means at disposal (including the tanks) and there should definitely be some good progress! (Besides, as already explained, some groups are to be delayed anyway because it's on purpose!) So, that's perfectly fine.
-> Almost no arty or engineers? :shock: Well, already mentionned... :lol:
-> Seemingly endless RP reserves? :) Well, let them exhaust them, these resources will be lacking elsewhere... :wink: besides, this impression is only valid during the first turns of the scenario, so... 8)


:!: Besides, again, what does this sentence exactly mean: "Not sure if you're ( :shock: ) really happy how the "04Keren" scen plays." :?: What would this involve? :arrow: Among other things, there I am (strongly) tempted to say: talk for yourself, my friend! :wink:
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Re: Free France Campaign

Post by bru888 »

Free France 1940-1945 v0.18 has been uploaded..

Free France 1940-1945 (eight scenarios)

- In Operation Exporter, fixed the fail triggers in the Krak des Chevaliers folder so that each will turn off the secondary objective trigger to prevent the objective from being completed after it has been failed.
- In every scenario so far completed, I have dramatically reduced enemy resource income per the discussion in this thread. For, as Conboy eloquently put it, we want to "Eliminate the prospect of bad guys surviving and then coming back to taunt supply lines with powerful units. I hate that!" If there are subsequent gameplay balance issues, I prefer to deal with them using tangible units, more or less for each side, than with intangible resource points which, at parity of enemy to friendly resources, seem to bog the scenario down.
- Bru
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Re: Free France Campaign

Post by ColonelY »

As promised, I've managed to start playing (a good fourth of) 08Fezzan and, well, this scenario looks indeed very promising. :D
bru888
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Re: Free France Campaign

Post by bru888 »

ColonelY wrote: Sun Feb 14, 2021 8:03 pm As promised, I've managed to start playing (a good fourth of) 08Fezzan and, well, this scenario looks indeed very promising. :D
Thanks. If it drags, start over with the v0.18 version of the scenario. This has reduced enemy resources so enemy units will not keep coming back. If you do make it through your current version, however, I am interested in whether you can get to all primary objectives on or before Turn 40. Play well!
- Bru
ColonelY
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Re: Free France Campaign

Post by ColonelY »

Thanks! :D
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Re: Free France Campaign

Post by bru888 »

bru888 wrote: Sat Feb 13, 2021 1:04 am A FINISHED MAP in only ONE DAY! :shock:
Economy package! Use the same map for two scenarios: 09Medenine and 10MarethLine.

This, instead of cramming both battles into one scenario and having it run 60 turns. Plus, I will not have to "reset" the units between two battles in a single scenario. I could do it, but it would be cumbersome and look awkward. This way, the player gets two shorter, fresher scenarios and the designer gets away with having to make only one map.

The Battle of Medenine (09Medenine) will take place in the red circled area and the Battle of the Mareth Line (10MarethLine) will involve action and movements shown by the green oval and arrows:

Screenshot 3.jpg
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Re: Free France Campaign

Post by Mascarenhas »

Fezzan 1

I´d suggest a revision on aerial operations in this scenario. Historical sources indicate that FFL barely had an air force by the time and place. " Groupe Bretagne ", the only operational unit present in the theatre had no fighter planes, and was comprised primarily by Blenheim IV and Glenn Martin Maryland light bombers, alongside a flight of recon Lysander and Potez 29 transport planes. The Italians, in the other hand, had some SM 79 and Falco 42 biplane fighters.
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Re: Free France Campaign

Post by bru888 »

Masca, Fezzan is an abstract, really, like many other aspects of this campaign. It is loosely based on history and plausibility but after that, it is subject to creative license.

For example, "Groupe Bretagne." Yes, I read what you did; that they had only light bombers, recon and transport planes. So, let's think in terms of OOB.

First, there are no Maryland light bombers or Potez utility aircraft in the game. That means putting a fleet of Blenheims and Lysanders in the air to represent Free France. Having a Free French air presence in some scenarios is something that ColonelY advocated and I agree with.

But this is a game. It has to be fun, not frustrating. How much enjoyment will the player have watching his defenseless recon planes and nearly defenseless light bombers getting shot down?

I am doing good research these days as to what units are represented in this campaign, and when. Some of what you are seeing is designer's choice because adhering too closely to history means producing scenarios that are either boring or infuriating to play.

So yes, in Fezzan, I included M.S. 406 fighters and Gloster Gladiators to support Fairey Battles (I wanted tactical bombers in this one, not strategic bombers - it just seems more appropriate for a battleground this remote) in opposition to the Italian MC.200s, CR.42 Falcos, and Breda Ba.65s (also tactical bombers).

In maybe half of the battles portrayed in this campaign, the Free French did not fare well. In some, they shared in the laurels of victory earned by their much more powerful allies. There, I said it. They still were heroes whose story deserves to be told.

But the venue to do so is a game in this case. People play games for enjoyment, and to win.

I don't want to revise history, but in some cases I have provided for the player to plausibly win, playing the Free French. Dakar, for example, was a disaster for the Allies but you can win that scenario. Second El Alamein, though, I dismissed out of hand in terms of the Free French. There was no retrieving that one.

Last night, I was reading about what happened to Free French forces at the battle for Monte Cassino. So far, this is what I think was meant when people proposed Operation Diadem as part of this campaign. Knowing what happened to those poor wretches in those snowy mountains has me doubting this scenario as well. I have to do more research.

Anyway, I appreciate your offer, and please don't stop posting such suggestions, but sometimes we go with the fanciful in favor of playing enjoyment (and/or due to the constraints of the game and the Free French faction). Fezzan falls into that category.
- Bru
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Re: Free France Campaign

Post by bru888 »

bru888 wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 5:11 pm Last night, I was reading about what happened to Free French forces at the battle for Monte Cassino. So far, this is what I think was meant when people proposed Operation Diadem as part of this campaign. Knowing what happened to those poor wretches in those snowy mountains has me doubting this scenario as well. I have to do more research.
Apparently, what I was reading was merely the First Battle of Cassino. Depending on how you parse things, there were up to four battles of Cassino! And from a quick scan of this resource, the Free French did much better in the final battle than they did in the first one.

(In the book that I am reading, Rick Atkinson's The Day of Battle: The War in Sicily and Italy, 1943-1944, it is only February 1944, the first battle. What I was reading was the account of the 2nd Moroccans and 3rd Algerians in the mountains north of Cassino. Valiant to the extreme, but they did not do well to say the least.)

Also helping is my checking and confirming that the game has 1943 and 1945 versions of the British Indian Colonial Infantry unit, which I have been using to portray Free French North Africans.

So prospects for an Operation Diadem in this campaign have brightened again.

Image0318.jpg
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Re: Free France Campaign

Post by Mascarenhas »

I see your point, Bru, and, of course, I very well agree. But for enjoyment and playability, in this case, I think that Italian air forces represent an almost unbeatable challenge for the French; from it´s ability to get replenishments well along at least by half-game. By than, unfortunately, French air might well be wiped out of combat. Either the player may replace h8is losses, or AI has a few less aircraft, in my view.
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Re: Free France Campaign

Post by ColonelY »

1. Air component in Fezzan:
Early opinion => From the first fourth (more or less :roll: ) of the scenario that I've been able to play so far (so the "early" aspect of this conclusion), I would just say that it's just perfect. But, still to be confirmed. :wink:
(By the way, the AI income in terms of RP will be lowered, and it's already the case in the very last version, if I'm not mistaken.)

2. Yes, it is indeed the fourth battle of Cassino which interests us the most here... :D
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Re: Free France Campaign

Post by conboy »

Bru,
Economy package! Use the same map for two scenarios: 09Medenine and 10MarethLine
I have done this in the past and am currently working on an entire 6-scenario campaign that takes place on one map. I regretted the first attempt because the map was so large that it bogged the scenarios on loading. Once they got started, they were okay though. But now I have to go back and try to make the map look more-or-less identical for 6 scenarios.

But be warned, each scenario will raise questions about the way the map looked in the previous scenario, and you will have to fix it. I am having this issue now. Recommend you get the first scenario done just the way you like it and not get too elaborate with the bigger map - the player won't have much need to go prowling around.

I wouldn't do any decorations beyond the battle box for the first scenario until the two scenarios are complete.

It looks like about a 38x38 hex map so you won't have trouble with it getting boggy, unless there are a ton of units.

looks like fun!

conboy
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Re: Free France Campaign

Post by bru888 »

Mascarenhas wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 8:28 pm I see your point, Bru, and, of course, I very well agree. But for enjoyment and playability, in this case, I think that Italian air forces represent an almost unbeatable challenge for the French; from it´s ability to get replenishments well along at least by half-game. By than, unfortunately, French air might well be wiped out of combat. Either the player may replace h8is losses, or AI has a few less aircraft, in my view.
As ColonelY said, the latest versions have reduced enemy/AI resources.
- Bru
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Re: Free France Campaign

Post by bru888 »

ColonelY wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 9:51 pm 1. Air component in Fezzan:
Early opinion => From the first fourth (more or less :roll: ) of the scenario that I've been able to play so far (so the "early" aspect of this conclusion), I would just say that it's just perfect. But, still to be confirmed. :wink:
(By the way, the AI income in terms of RP will be lowered, and it's already the case in the very last version, if I'm not mistaken.)

2. Yes, it is indeed the fourth battle of Cassino which interests us the most here... :D
Fezzan is almost clever enough to release as a standalone. Almost. (Don't want to go through that rigmarole again - updating two copies of the same scenario.)

My heart swelled with pride to see the French sweeping around the German flank in this map! Operation Diadem is on! :o

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Re: Free France Campaign

Post by bru888 »

conboy wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 10:35 pm Bru,
Economy package! Use the same map for two scenarios: 09Medenine and 10MarethLine
I have done this in the past and am currently working on an entire 6-scenario campaign that takes place on one map. I regretted the first attempt because the map was so large that it bogged the scenarios on loading. Once they got started, they were okay though. But now I have to go back and try to make the map look more-or-less identical for 6 scenarios.

But be warned, each scenario will raise questions about the way the map looked in the previous scenario, and you will have to fix it. I am having this issue now. Recommend you get the first scenario done just the way you like it and not get too elaborate with the bigger map - the player won't have much need to go prowling around.

I wouldn't do any decorations beyond the battle box for the first scenario until the two scenarios are complete.

It looks like about a 38x38 hex map so you won't have trouble with it getting boggy, unless there are a ton of units.

looks like fun!

conboy
Oh, I made sure that the map was FINISHED as far as the usual stuff - decorations, etc. - before I committed it to the two scenarios. Now, there's always a bit of tweaking, like clearing a hex for an airfield, but that should be minimal, single-hex stuff.
- Bru
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