Field of Glory II: Medieval - out now

[Krevan]

Playing for the Russians on the Kalka River, I noticed that the choice of troops is very poor. On the Russian strategy forum, too, many complain that the choice of troops in Novgorod is not great.

[Paul59]

Playing for the Russians on the Kalka River, I noticed that the choice of troops is very poor. On the Russian strategy forum, too, many complain that the choice of troops in Novgorod is not great.

Sorry, I don't understand what you mean. This is Kalka selection screen on level 2 (Knight):



I included all the unit types that seemed reasonable from the accounts that I had access to. I did not include things like western knights and Lithuanian cavalry which I had absolutely no reason to believe were there. The same goes for the Novgorod army at Lake Peipus.

What were you expecting to see?

[Krevan]

Sorry, I don't understand what you mean. This is Kalka selection screen on level 2. I included all the unit types that seemed reasonable from the accounts that I had access to. I did not include things like western knights and Lithuanian cavalry which I had absolutely no reason to believe were there. The same goes for the Novgorod army at Lake Peipus. What were you expecting to see?

I would like to see more options for foot archers, such as the "hunters" squad, who are very good at archery and hunting in the vast expanses of the Eastern European plain. Such units should be in any country where wild forest is the predominant landscape. It also follows that there are people who cut down this forest - they carry heavy axes and probably do not wear armor. The Anglo-Saxons have them. Are the Slavs such barbarians that they can't fight with axes?

[Paul59]

Sorry, I don't understand what you mean. This is Kalka selection screen on level 2. I included all the unit types that seemed reasonable from the accounts that I had access to. I did not include things like western knights and Lithuanian cavalry which I had absolutely no reason to believe were there. The same goes for the Novgorod army at Lake Peipus. What were you expecting to see?

I would like to see more options for foot archers, such as the "hunters" squad, who are very good at archery and hunting in the vast expanses of the Eastern European plain. Such units should be in any country where wild forest is the predominant landscape. It also follows that there are people who cut down this forest - they carry heavy axes and probably do not wear armor. The Anglo-Saxons have them. Are the Slavs such barbarians that they can't fight with axes?

Elite light infantry units are very rarely added to the game, and only in exceptional circumstances for famous troop types such as the Cretan Archers in the Ancients game.

As for axemen, of course we realise that the Rus principalities would have had axemen, but they are assumed to be in mixed units with men carrying other weapons. For the Rus Foot they have been assumed to be part of the Spearmen units. The game has a top down design, which means that we aim to reproduce a units historical effect on the battlefield. Classifying the Rus Foot as spearmen gives the effect we want, if they were classed as unprotected heavy weapon they would be useless against the Mongol cavalry on a steppe battlefield. Note that the Anglo Danish Fyrd Spearmen would also have contained men armed with axes. It is only the Anglo Danish Huscarls that have heavy weapon capability, because that is the weapon that they were famously equipped with.

[Krevan]

Elite light infantry units are very rarely added to the game, and only in exceptional circumstances for famous troop types such as the Cretan Archers in the Ancients game.
As for axemen, of course we realise that the Rus principalities would have had axemen, but they are assumed to be in mixed units with men carrying other weapons. For the Rus Foot they have been assumed to be part of the Spearmen units. The game has a top down design, which means that we aim to reproduce a units historical effect on the battlefield. Classifying the Rus Foot as spearmen gives the effect we want, if they were classed as unprotected heavy weapon they would be useless against the Mongol cavalry on a steppe battlefield. Note that the Anglo Danish Fyrd Spearmen would also have contained men armed with axes. It is only the Anglo Danish Huscarls that have heavy weapon capability, because that is the weapon that they were famously equipped with.

But the problem is that the Russian infantry is exclusively defensive, if it had a certain percentage of soldiers with axes, it would be more versatile, including for charging at the enemy.
I believe that the troops of the Russian lands can be made more diverse. I can search for historical sources or chronicles for you.

[rbodleyscott]

Elite light infantry units are very rarely added to the game, and only in exceptional circumstances for famous troop types such as the Cretan Archers in the Ancients game.
As for axemen, of course we realise that the Rus principalities would have had axemen, but they are assumed to be in mixed units with men carrying other weapons. For the Rus Foot they have been assumed to be part of the Spearmen units. The game has a top down design, which means that we aim to reproduce a units historical effect on the battlefield. Classifying the Rus Foot as spearmen gives the effect we want, if they were classed as unprotected heavy weapon they would be useless against the Mongol cavalry on a steppe battlefield. Note that the Anglo Danish Fyrd Spearmen would also have contained men armed with axes. It is only the Anglo Danish Huscarls that have heavy weapon capability, because that is the weapon that they were famously equipped with.

But the problem is that the Russian infantry is exclusively defensive, if it had a certain percentage of soldiers with axes, it would be more versatile, including for charging at the enemy.
I believe that the troops of the Russian lands can be made more diverse. I can search for historical sources or chronicles for you.

We are always interested to see such evidence, and we are not averse to tweaking army lists, provided that we consider the evidence good enough.

[Krevan]

Elite light infantry units are very rarely added to the game, and only in exceptional circumstances for famous troop types such as the Cretan Archers in the Ancients game.
As for axemen, of course we realise that the Rus principalities would have had axemen, but they are assumed to be in mixed units with men carrying other weapons. For the Rus Foot they have been assumed to be part of the Spearmen units. The game has a top down design, which means that we aim to reproduce a units historical effect on the battlefield. Classifying the Rus Foot as spearmen gives the effect we want, if they were classed as unprotected heavy weapon they would be useless against the Mongol cavalry on a steppe battlefield. Note that the Anglo Danish Fyrd Spearmen would also have contained men armed with axes. It is only the Anglo Danish Huscarls that have heavy weapon capability, because that is the weapon that they were famously equipped with.

But the problem is that the Russian infantry is exclusively defensive, if it had a certain percentage of soldiers with axes, it would be more versatile, including for charging at the enemy.
I believe that the troops of the Russian lands can be made more diverse. I can search for historical sources or chronicles for you.

We are always interested to see such evidence, and we are not averse to tweaking army lists, provided that we consider the evidence good enough.

It is very good! Then I'll get on with it.

[Krevan]

Hello. Let's start with the cavalry. I can prove that in Russia of the 13th century there were two types of mounted warriors-heavy cavalry for ramming blows (like knights), and light cavalry (imitated the steppe peoples with whom Russia fought and contacted for centuries).
Evidence: W. Воeheim. Handbuch der Waffenkunde. Leipzig, 1890, p. 197, 198. - "The spread of ramming with a spear caused in the chivalric West in the XII century the appearance of saddles with a deep seat and a chair-shaped curved front and back". http://ipic.su/img/img7/fs/1.1613131421.png
Miniature of a horse from the 13th century. From the book of the famous Russian archaeologist and medievalist A. N. Kirpichnikov.
"The existence of a chair—like structure in Russia is also confirmed by the stirrups with a flat, wide footrest and spurs of the pan - European types of the XII-XIII centuries," writes Kirpichnikov.
The contemporary Medieval historian K. Zhukov also says this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0PYTHLXAlk&t=988s - We include English subtitles. (Minute 14.12, 15.10, 15.27).
Judging by the report of the Galician-Volyn chronicle that the horses of the soldiers of Daniel of Galicia in the late 1240s were "masked and leather koyareh", horse armor was then available to the Russians.
The creators of the film about Alexander Nevsky knew about this. As you can see in the picture, they dressed Alexander's horse in an armor made of quilted fabric on cotton wool, which absorbs blows.
http://ipic.su/img/img7/fs/mif_ill_2.1613132453.jpg
I think all this proves the presence in Russia of heavy, armored horsemen who used ramming knight tactics.
Could you add such units? At least in small quantities

[rbodleyscott]

Hello. Let's start with the cavalry. I can prove that in Russia of the 13th century there were two types of mounted warriors-heavy cavalry for ramming blows (like knights), and light cavalry (imitated the steppe peoples with whom Russia fought and contacted for centuries).
Evidence: W. Воeheim. Handbuch der Waffenkunde. Leipzig, 1890, p. 197, 198. - "The spread of ramming with a spear caused in the chivalric West in the XII century the appearance of saddles with a deep seat and a chair-shaped curved front and back". http://ipic.su/img/img7/fs/1.1613131421.png
Miniature of a horse from the 13th century. From the book of the famous Russian archaeologist and medievalist A. N. Kirpichnikov.
"The existence of a chair—like structure in Russia is also confirmed by the stirrups with a flat, wide footrest and spurs of the pan - European types of the XII-XIII centuries," writes Kirpichnikov.
The contemporary Medieval historian K. Zhukov also says this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0PYTHLXAlk&t=988s - We include English subtitles. (Minute 14.12, 15.10, 15.27).
Judging by the report of the Galician-Volyn chronicle that the horses of the soldiers of Daniel of Galicia in the late 1240s were "masked and leather koyareh", horse armor was then available to the Russians.
The creators of the film about Alexander Nevsky knew about this. As you can see in the picture, they dressed Alexander's horse in an armor made of quilted fabric on cotton wool, which absorbs blows.
http://ipic.su/img/img7/fs/mif_ill_2.1613132453.jpg
I think all this proves the presence in Russia of heavy, armored horsemen who used ramming knight tactics.
Could you add such units? At least in small quantities

Please can you start a new thread here: viewforum.php?f=623

An announcement thread isn't a good place for such a discussion.

[Krevan]

Please can you start a new thread here: viewforum.php?f=623

An announcement thread isn't a good place for such a discussion.

Ok, tell me what name is better to give to the new topic?

[rbodleyscott]

Please can you start a new thread here: viewforum.php?f=623

An announcement thread isn't a good place for such a discussion.

Ok, tell me what name is better to give to the new topic?

Maybe "Suggestions for revision of Russian army lists"