Free France Campaign

[bru888]

Colonel, regarding OLD (v1.4), what about the coastal gun battle? From recent comments in the Bru's Scenarios thread, is that too hard now?

Current thresholds: Retain 4 of 8 harbour facilities (too easy) and 6 of 12 coastal guns (too hard?).

[ColonelY]

And another element about "07OperationLilaDenied":

I've read that ( https://www.thoughtco.com/world-war-ii- ... la-2361440 ):
"Advancing through Toulon, the Germans occupied heights overlooking the channel and air-dropped mines to prevent a French escape."

Well, then, the naval mines could be switched from neutral to German faction (the flag!)... perhaps with a little more of them to gives the player more a feeling of "blocade", or of a vicious "trap" set by Germans and SS rushing now towards the French ships...

Of course, together with few nice words somewhere talking (briefly) about this (historical) aspect.

It was not French mines defending them from British or something, but German mines blocking the French ships inside (and the British ships outside).

[ColonelY]

Colonel, regarding OLD (v1.4), what about the coastal gun battle? From recent comments in the Bru's Scenarios thread, is that too hard now?

Current thresholds: Retain 4 of 8 harbour facilities (too easy) and 6 of 12 coastal guns (too hard?).

Too hard? No. I've had seven of them left (if I remember correctly).

***

07OperationLilaDenied:

[...] No, I think you don't need to dial those thresholds back - it's definitely more challenging for these coastal guns, but by focusing the coastal guns fire against DDs and by rushing the torpedo planes to deal with the cruisers (2 sets of torpedos = directly 1 enemy light cruiser down), under the cover of our dogfighters dealing with enemy dogfighters, it's perfectly manageable! [...]

Again, I've written quite a lot.

[ColonelY]

06BirHakeim:

Here as well, you should take into account the campaign variable giving (or not) the first bonus in XP for the Free French planes!



01Dakar:

I've seen (using the Editor here) that you've indeed removed all core units (by replacing them with the same units but as auxiliary)... But then, there is a very little detail left: The word "core" should be removed from the description of the objective "Convert 4 colonial infantry units".

[ColonelY]

Colonel, regarding OLD (v1.4), what about the coastal gun battle? From recent comments in the Bru's Scenarios thread, is that too hard now?

Current thresholds: Retain 4 of 8 harbour facilities (too easy) and 6 of 12 coastal guns (too hard?).

Too hard? No. I've had seven of them left (if I remember correctly).

***

07OperationLilaDenied:

[...] No, I think you don't need to dial those thresholds back - it's definitely more challenging for these coastal guns, but by focusing the coastal guns fire against DDs and by rushing the torpedo planes do deal with the cruisers (2 sets of torpedos = directly 1 enemy light cruiser down), under the cover of our dogfighters dealing with enemy dogfighters, it's perfectly manageable! [...]

Again, I've written quite a lot.

Yes, 7 coastal guns left!
1 at 8-strenght, 1 at 7 and 1 at 5 (and the last 4 still intact)...

Threshold: Retain 6 of 12 coastal guns. There is not much room for mistakes there, but I would say it's perfect to keep it challenging and to make somehow the player feel the urge to send torpedo planes to help dealing with this battle...

If you're a little worried about this aspect or you wish to help (a little) the player (or both), then another event warning him (or her) about this emergency and recalling him (or her) to keep torpedos for cruisers instead of destroyers for a maximal efficiency may be a nice litte addition!

[ColonelY]

Oh, and by the way, now that the folder are more like "Free France 1940-1945 v0.11"... you can't just unzip it and reload your last save because of the folder name (the addition of the v0.11 or something)... Now the player has to manually delete the last part of the folder name to reload an "old" savegame... so, perhaps now putting under the "Free France 1940-1945 v0.11" just a folder "Free France 1940-1945" with all the different files in it. That may be easier to handle: unzipping the "Free France 1940-1945 v0.11", then just deleting the "old" version of "Free France 1940-1945" then copying-pasting the "Free France 1940-1945"... and that's it. And like this, there would still be a track of the actual version (if the player don't delete as well the "Free France 1940-1945 v0.11" )...

[ColonelY]

Excellent, the campaign events just before 08Fezzan. Congrats!

[ColonelY]

Colonel [...]

Current thresholds: Retain 4 of 8 harbour facilities (too easy -> Indeed, yes!) and 6 of 12 coastal guns (too hard? -> No, I would say just perfect... perhaps though with a small reminder on how to use torpedos effectively.).

You know, before testing this last version (the one in FF v0.11), I've opened the Editor to change both of these thresholds: having to retain 1 Harbour facility and 1 coastal gun only... ( ) Why? Well, I didn't want an early defeat to "ruin" this test. Therefore, it would no longer be possible and I knew I could play without having to fear this... But still trying to do my best, in order to help adapting, or not, these thresholds in case it would be required.

[ColonelY]

07OperationLilaDenied:

[...] Therefore: What about sending some land reinforcements to Axis troops?

By the way, it would be nice here as well to have the opinion of other players that have tested this scenario.

I suggest spawning them at turn 8 (= 1/3 of the scenario).
But which units?
Well, let's forget about the (here) useless German AA units...

But this could be an opportunity to involve the remaining of the 2nd SS Pz Div (together with a nice event - "Due to an unexpected resistance, the enemy is forced to send more troops in the fray!" or something):
3rd PzG Reg "Deutschland" / 2nd SS Pz Div
4th PzG Reg "Der Fuhrer" / 2nd SS Pz Div
As you've selected it, this would represent 6 regular SS infantry units (3 per regiment)... => 'Could be 3 of them spawning from the west and the 3 last from the east!

Then we could still have the (motorized of course - otherwise much too slow) 2 Rocket Launcher Bn / 2nd SS Pz Div (as one single unit together with one SS infantry regiment?) and, let's say, the 2 Pz Tank Destroyer Bn / 2nd SS Pz Div (as another single unit together with the other SS infantry regiment?)

Two little points:
A Rocket launcher unit , this could be a nice addition to this campaign as well... we haven't seen any yet, have we?

As TD unit, what about some German Marder unit model? (Marder I, II or III - all available at that time!)

[ColonelY]

And another element about "07OperationLilaDenied":

I've read that ( https://www.thoughtco.com/world-war-ii- ... la-2361440 ):
"Advancing through Toulon, the Germans occupied heights overlooking the channel and air-dropped mines to prevent a French escape."

Well, then, the naval mines could be switched from neutral to German faction (the flag!)... perhaps with a little more of them to gives the player more a feeling of "blocade", or of a vicious "trap" set by Germans and SS rushing now towards the French ships...

Of course, together with few nice words somewhere talking (briefly) about this (historical) aspect.

It was not French mines defending them from British or something, but German mines blocking the French ships inside (and the British ships outside).

Thinking back to it, we may have some golden opportunity here!


This could be made in two different ways (of course each one of these coming together with some cool and immersive event, I won't insist on this right now, that's not the point here ):

1. Simply start the scenario with a bunch of sea mines under the German flag already disposed here and there (but more than we've on map right now)...
2. OR ('could be much more fun and, I think, relatively easy to implement) using some German planes having the "Mine Layer" trait!!! And that would be quite innovative! (I think so, at least. )

This could appear like this:
1. Deployment:
Perhaps two German units of different kind of planes having the "Mine Layer" trait over one side of this harbour entrance, with already two sets of German naval mines on water (like if each one of these planes had already layed one minefield in the sea)...
-> There, the event should take place!
2. First AI turn: make these planes moves towards the other side of this harbour entrance and spawn a bunch of German naval mines more or less on their path...
3. Then, see how far they can go: is another turn required or not (to reach the other harbour entrance side?)
4. Finally, make them disappear using triggers (like "exit" the map, or something), or change their AI setup so that they'll really reach some Axis air exit hex on map, thus making their disappearance somehow less artificial? You're pick, depending as well on how it does "render".

Which planes?
Three possibilities (available at that time within OoB):
-> The Do 217K, able to move max 11 hexes per turn
-> The He 111 H, able to move max 8 hexes per turn
-> The Ju 88, able to move max 10 hexes per turn

So, perhaps one Do 217K and one Ju 88! (As their respective speeds are the closest. )


Tell me, does this sounds good to you?

[ColonelY]

I really like this idea about "mine layer" German planes, as a rather decorative but immersive side-part of this scenario.
It remains to be seen if it's not too complex to add it ...


A little as what you've written about supply:

[...] I do like the supply solution, however, so that will stay. Supply should have no role to play in this scenario.

Operation Lila Denied [...] Think of this: It's a lightning raid taking place in one day in a major city. Do we really think the Germans would be worried about supply lines in an operation like this? [...]

Yeah, precisely!

But for a lightning raid, do we really think that the more or less taken by surprise French would have had time to densely mine their harbour entrance? On the other hand, the planes are really fast, able to make this surprise move... both to the French for preventing an escape of their ships and to the British to prevent them winning the jackpot by getting too easily inside this harbour.

[bru888]

Here's what I said about OLD v1.4 in the other thread:

Definitely, definitely, the torpedo planes are provided to help with the coastal gun battle. As a matter of fact, I tried to make it so that it would be a blunder to go after the capital ships with them too soon . . . Also, forget about it if the player gets it into his head to switch them to bombers and use them on German land troops, despite being warned. He will regret it.

So, I believe this is a challenging balance in the sea battle for the threshold to be retaining no less than 6 out of 12 guns. The land battle seems to be a bit easy, even at a threshold of retaining 4 out of 8 harbour facilities, although I have a hard time visualizing it. Perhaps it's because I envisioned players holding back, cowering in their forts and bunkers, until attacked whereas it seems what is happening instead is that they are sending out the Free French forces to counterattack.

So I am going to leave the sea battle alone. Let me think about the land battle.

P.S. I fixed that reference to core units in Dakar.

[ColonelY]

Some thoughts about the land battle:

1. Having many supply outputs also means that the AI will sometimes move a little less compactly, as it will send one or the other of the units to secure this or that point as well. And therefore also to clash with our troops while having slightly less concentrated local forces... => That's not a problem at all in itself, but it's good to know. (So, NO need at all to change the supply system.)

2. Then, of course, the buildings (city) offer a defensive bonus to our units (and to all units anyway, including the enemy ones)... but it helps to defend oneself; it would not be the same in open country (where German tanks would be clearly at an advantage).

3. Holding back? Yes, but not too much either!
Concentrating his forces, that can allow to have the numerical superiority locally and to make some not negligible damages to enemy units, therefore potentially able to make tip the balance in our favor... besides, why wait for the storm with relatively weak means ("weak" because dispersed) which remain blocked (!) on the spot?.... Unless you have an excellent defensive posture, one of the keys is often to keep or regain the initiative - and this is not simply by "holding back".
On the otherhand, if we hold back, we may not be able to resist local assaults if the enemy concentrates its strenghts... of course, that will anyway delay the AI, but if one loses too many units, then there won't be much option left to regain initiative, to mount a local counter-attack, to concentrate locally the remaining units, or something.

[ColonelY]

I don't think at all that these suggested renforcements may be really problematic:

1. If the player does as I've done it, or more or less, then with these renforcements spawning at turn 8, it means they should be able to reach the battling areas around turn 11 or 12... at that time, the Germans should have lost several units, that could then be somehow replaced by these renforcements, thus keeping the challenge up and preventing the land battle to become already a full mobbing up operation.

2. If the player does "hold back", then few units more shouldn't change that much either... if he's waiting behind some bunker, he'll continue to wait, basically...


Besides, the remaining units of the 2nd SS Pz Div shouldn't be really far away, should they? Then they could definitely have been involved...


Well, well, for now I'll stop here and let you think about all this.

[bru888]

Well, well, for now I'll stop here and let you think about all this.

It was this statement that decided me: "BUT at the start of the turn 15, the last enemy German or SS units have been destroyed! (And all harbour facilities either held or reclaimed soon after!)"

Alright. You want more Germans? You got more Germans!

Here comes the rest of "Das Reich"!

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[GabeKnight]

Alright. You want more Germans? You got more Germans!

Here comes the rest of "Das Reich"!

That's okay, adding more land units; and "fixing" the supply situation would have been a major suggestion from me also (played v1.1). But I would suggest to dial the coastal guns objective down, maybe to 2-3 even. Four is okay with middle difficulty, but impossible - or rather super hard maybe - on higher difficulties. The ship arty against land units is too strong.

I'm not saying anything's impossible but you don't want your scens to become puzze-like. You just don't. Having to play it multiple times to figure out the "right" way to play is not really fun and too hardcore IMO.

And BTW, I hope we're talking about the same thing: "Operation Lila Denied"...

[bru888]

Colonel tells me:

Yes, 7 coastal guns left!
1 at 8-strenght, 1 at 7 and 1 at 5 (and the last 4 still intact)...

Threshold: Retain 6 of 12 coastal guns. There is not much room for mistakes there, but I would say it's perfect to keep it challenging and to make somehow the player feel the urge to send torpedo planes to help dealing with this battle...

Gabe tells me:

But I would suggest to dial the coastal guns objective down, maybe to 2-3 even. Four is okay with middle difficulty, but impossible - or rather super hard maybe - on higher difficulties.

What's a designer to do?

[bru888]

Well, so far, I did this:

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[GabeKnight]

What's a designer to do?

Wasn't there some "third party" involved in this discussion, too? When in doubt, listen to conboy...

[bru888]

What's a designer to do?

Wasn't there some "third party" involved in this discussion, too? When in doubt, listen to conboy...

He was making progress without the torpedo bombers(!) so I think I will leave the sea battle alone (6 out of 12 coastal guns).

I left the threshold for the land battle (4 out of 8 harbour facilities) alone, too, but I have substantially beefed up that challenge. See the Bru's Scenario thread for details on version 1.5.

Free France 1940-1945 v0.12 has been uploaded. It includes the edits to Operation Lila Denied that are contained in version 1.5.

Free France 1940-1945 (seven scenarios)