Hi Gents
Ive come into possession of a 28mm samurai army to paint up.
Ive started painting and then realised I do not know how to base them for FOG.
Any advice would be appreciated as the book isnt out yet!
regards
jon
advice needed on basing samurai army
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Are we talking the late Samurai types?
The list that goes to 1500 AD has as it's main troop type mixed BGs of cavalry and infantry. There is also an option for detaching cavalry from infantry to give all mounted or all foot BGs.
Depending on how many figures you have I would probably go with 2-3 BGs of 4 cavalry 2-3 BGs of 6 followers based as medium foot and all the other cavalry and followers as mixed mounted and foot on cavalry sized bases.
You could just base all the foot as MF and all the mounted as cavalry and then use sabot bases to get the correct on table effect for the mixed BGs.
The list that goes to 1500 AD has as it's main troop type mixed BGs of cavalry and infantry. There is also an option for detaching cavalry from infantry to give all mounted or all foot BGs.
Depending on how many figures you have I would probably go with 2-3 BGs of 4 cavalry 2-3 BGs of 6 followers based as medium foot and all the other cavalry and followers as mixed mounted and foot on cavalry sized bases.
You could just base all the foot as MF and all the mounted as cavalry and then use sabot bases to get the correct on table effect for the mixed BGs.
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Huaxtec15mm
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Late samurai and ashigaru are heavy infantry and should be 4 troops to a stand. Skirmish bow or arquebusiers 2 to a stand. Spear armed cavalry 3 to a base. Bow armed cavalry 2 to a stand.
Ikko Ikki and Monks are based exactly same as samurai/ ashigaru.
Sorry, no ninjas on late period battle fields. Thats a falicy/ flight of fantasy.
Mind you, all of the above are "recomendations" only based on my knowledge of this period and I have no idea what the final out come will be. All of the above are resonable representations of 1500-1615 armies though.
Ikko Ikki and Monks are based exactly same as samurai/ ashigaru.
Sorry, no ninjas on late period battle fields. Thats a falicy/ flight of fantasy.
Mind you, all of the above are "recomendations" only based on my knowledge of this period and I have no idea what the final out come will be. All of the above are resonable representations of 1500-1615 armies though.
Rin Byo To Sha Kai Jin Rettsu Za Zen!
While these may be reasonable representations of 1500-1615 armies they are not the representations used in the pre 1500 list which is the one in Empires of the DragonHuaxtec15mm wrote:Late samurai and ashigaru are heavy infantry and should be 4 troops to a stand. Skirmish bow or arquebusiers 2 to a stand. Spear armed cavalry 3 to a base. Bow armed cavalry 2 to a stand.
Ikko Ikki and Monks are based exactly same as samurai/ ashigaru.
Sorry, no ninjas on late period battle fields. Thats a falicy/ flight of fantasy.
Mind you, all of the above are "recomendations" only based on my knowledge of this period and I have no idea what the final out come will be. All of the above are resonable representations of 1500-1615 armies though.
I would stick with followers on MF bases and mounted Samurai on cavalry bases.
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Huaxtec15mm
- Administrative Corporal - SdKfz 251/1
- Posts: 145
- Joined: Sun May 03, 2009 6:02 pm
- Location: Lost Angeles
-
Huaxtec15mm
- Administrative Corporal - SdKfz 251/1
- Posts: 145
- Joined: Sun May 03, 2009 6:02 pm
- Location: Lost Angeles
Once again Thanks Gents!
I got the figures by chance and wasnt really planning a Samurai army, but I was temtped by the superb sculpts and thought it might look pretty on the table so I set off!
Look like I will be putting all the foot on MF bases with 3 figs. All the Cav with 3 to a base. I may stick the Ikkofigs on Skirmisher bases just to break the army up a little. Civilians on hordes bases. And the stunning named character figs on General bases with the main man, cimoplete with wind screen on the baggage base...............
I may even do a mini blog................... if anyones interested of course?
jon
I got the figures by chance and wasnt really planning a Samurai army, but I was temtped by the superb sculpts and thought it might look pretty on the table so I set off!
Look like I will be putting all the foot on MF bases with 3 figs. All the Cav with 3 to a base. I may stick the Ikkofigs on Skirmisher bases just to break the army up a little. Civilians on hordes bases. And the stunning named character figs on General bases with the main man, cimoplete with wind screen on the baggage base...............
I may even do a mini blog................... if anyones interested of course?
jon
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Huaxtec15mm
- Administrative Corporal - SdKfz 251/1
- Posts: 145
- Joined: Sun May 03, 2009 6:02 pm
- Location: Lost Angeles
ALWAYS interested in anything to do with Samurai!chubooga wrote:Once again Thanks Gents!
I got the figures by chance and wasnt really planning a Samurai army, but I was temtped by the superb sculpts and thought it might look pretty on the table so I set off!
Look like I will be putting all the foot on MF bases with 3 figs. All the Cav with 3 to a base. I may stick the Ikkofigs on Skirmisher bases just to break the army up a little. Civilians on hordes bases. And the stunning named character figs on General bases with the main man, cimoplete with wind screen on the baggage base...............
I may even do a mini blog................... if anyones interested of course?
jon
Rin Byo To Sha Kai Jin Rettsu Za Zen!
Then I will sort some photos out!
Any advice would be appreciated as its not my period of history at all............ just like the figures!
When it comes to samurai, should they be in mixed uniforms within units with different banners etc or would they all be the same?
Should I put mioxed weapons in the same unit, or would all the swords be in one unit, all the spear in another etc?
cheers
jon
Any advice would be appreciated as its not my period of history at all............ just like the figures!
When it comes to samurai, should they be in mixed uniforms within units with different banners etc or would they all be the same?
Should I put mioxed weapons in the same unit, or would all the swords be in one unit, all the spear in another etc?
cheers
jon
Well, who in their right mind would build a Samurai army and not have Sashimono?hammy wrote: A lot of people use post 1500 figures for pre 1500 armies.
That would be like building a late Medieval Polish army and not having Winged Hussars!
"Never let the facts get in the way of a good paint job - or a nice looking army"
Hell, and talking about facts and Samurai and Ninjas, why not throw a few ninja's in? It might help distinguish a few elements. A ninja hiding up a tree on the command stand, or in the baggage. Some kind of 'Sintaro-esque' diorama.
Ian
Viking (15mm)
Syracusan (15mm)
Palmyran (10mm - 15mm basing)
Horse Nomad (15mm)
Syracusan (15mm)
Palmyran (10mm - 15mm basing)
Horse Nomad (15mm)
thinking on about the ninja on a command base idea too............. I'm on it!
Ordered smoe 28mm japenese wall sections and have a suitable ninja lined up...... but which General was assasinated?
Maeda Toshiie
Toshinaga
Tokugawa Leyasu
Li Naotaka
Nambu Nounao
As thats the pack I will put onthe command base
Also, Ive packs of bamboo fence, ordinary fence, Rice Bails, Mantlets etc etc......... should I keep these seperately absed to use as fortifications etc of is it ok to add them to unit bases to liven them up a little?
The more I look at this army the more I like it! whens the book out!
pictures to follow!
jon
Ordered smoe 28mm japenese wall sections and have a suitable ninja lined up...... but which General was assasinated?
Maeda Toshiie
Toshinaga
Tokugawa Leyasu
Li Naotaka
Nambu Nounao
As thats the pack I will put onthe command base
Also, Ive packs of bamboo fence, ordinary fence, Rice Bails, Mantlets etc etc......... should I keep these seperately absed to use as fortifications etc of is it ok to add them to unit bases to liven them up a little?
The more I look at this army the more I like it! whens the book out!
pictures to follow!
jon
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irondog068
- Staff Sergeant - Kavallerie
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- Joined: Sun Feb 10, 2008 7:51 pm
- Location: Chicago IL
Ahh,
Perry I have more than you can shake a stick at. They are all for the Senjiko peroid. There decasl are nice but Meade Tohise Kato Kiomasa never fought against each other and fought as Allies in the Imjin War in Korea. It was Meade's son who supported the 5 year old emporer in the final campaign of leading to Tokowkwa Being made Shogun. During the Campaign Kato was on the island Honshu (?) fighting for Tokowkwa. I have mounted all my Samurai and Ashigaru 3 to a base. 4 is too crowded and the Japanese fought in a looser formation then the west.
As for the book, this army will be no help I am sorry to say. The armor is about as close as a Condotta heavy Knight and a 1st Crusade Knight.
Also Ashigaru were firsted mention at the end of the Onin Wars (about the end of FOG). Before than there was just Retainers who were orginized diffrently.
As for Flushing out you Perry do not buy many Ashigaro bowmen. They fell out of favor for the Teppo. But fear not, there is te rennisace book and you could use them PM me and I could give all sorts of links and ideas.
for the peroid of the new book no one wore Sashimios sorry, But it is easy to strech them into the peroid since Samurai tctics remaind almost unchanged. Just treat the Ashigaru Teppo as longbow.
Sorry for all the misspelled words. To lazy to get my Samurai books from upstairs.
Irondog
Perry I have more than you can shake a stick at. They are all for the Senjiko peroid. There decasl are nice but Meade Tohise Kato Kiomasa never fought against each other and fought as Allies in the Imjin War in Korea. It was Meade's son who supported the 5 year old emporer in the final campaign of leading to Tokowkwa Being made Shogun. During the Campaign Kato was on the island Honshu (?) fighting for Tokowkwa. I have mounted all my Samurai and Ashigaru 3 to a base. 4 is too crowded and the Japanese fought in a looser formation then the west.
As for the book, this army will be no help I am sorry to say. The armor is about as close as a Condotta heavy Knight and a 1st Crusade Knight.
Also Ashigaru were firsted mention at the end of the Onin Wars (about the end of FOG). Before than there was just Retainers who were orginized diffrently.
As for Flushing out you Perry do not buy many Ashigaro bowmen. They fell out of favor for the Teppo. But fear not, there is te rennisace book and you could use them PM me and I could give all sorts of links and ideas.
for the peroid of the new book no one wore Sashimios sorry, But it is easy to strech them into the peroid since Samurai tctics remaind almost unchanged. Just treat the Ashigaru Teppo as longbow.
Sorry for all the misspelled words. To lazy to get my Samurai books from upstairs.
Irondog
15mm: Swiss, Spartans, Late Republic Romans, EIR Romans, and can you believe it Samurai. 800 points
28mm: Late Republic Romans 650 points
28mm: Samurai 800 points
28mm: Late Republic Romans 650 points
28mm: Samurai 800 points
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irondog068
- Staff Sergeant - Kavallerie
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- Joined: Sun Feb 10, 2008 7:51 pm
- Location: Chicago IL
some other modeling tips
As I am finishing yet a new unit of Ashigaru with Yari (long spear) and teppo (musket) here are some thoughts.
Ashigaru would be orginized in unit with the same weapon. be Yari, Teppo or Yumi (bow). The Bow Ashigaru in this peroid would be your skirmishers. but you would have few.
The Ashigaru would also be fairly uniform and have the same Mon (crest) on the sashimo and sometimes repeated on the helmet and front and back of armor. A easy way to do this is A: buy Perry's decals or B: Buy VVV decals and get the 15mm size for Ashigaru helemts and armor. I usally get whit for the armor but I have used red with good effect.
To make my life eaiser I use the same color lace on the armor light blue, yellow, red were popular. Uniform colors would be almost any pastal color. To have a real easy unit paint some of iI units, the Red Devils They all wore Red armor with red spears and red banners. Mine have black spears but oh well. The Samurai all have there names on the banners (I have a link with Samuari names I picked the easy ones). The Ashigau banner say "Godzilla" I get a laugh from people who can read Japanese.
Your Yari would be red or black laqured staffs. Wood color would be rare.
Monks would fight as Samurai and orginized as such. The Ikko Ikki also made a lot of use of Teppo.
Your Samurai would be like knights. diffrent colored uniforms, lace and armor would be black, red or brown. I picked up some Vallajo gloss and after they are done I very, very carfully gloss just the armor to give a shine to a few Samurai.
The most popular weapon is the Yari by this peroid. You can either mix or match Yari and Katana. I just seperate them into diffrent units they fight the same. Yari would also be black or red. The only unit I have the same color armor is my unit of Red Devils and since they are Samurai they have diffrent colored uniforms.
Also, If you are doing more that one ubit of the same clan (mon) the Japanese used black bars on the top, bottom or both to tell them apart. Perry's decal set includes these also.
On the Tate (Pavise) The mon would also be displayed. So I can use them where I want them I just put a doulbe black band on top.
Let me know if you have any other questions.
Irondog
Ashigaru would be orginized in unit with the same weapon. be Yari, Teppo or Yumi (bow). The Bow Ashigaru in this peroid would be your skirmishers. but you would have few.
The Ashigaru would also be fairly uniform and have the same Mon (crest) on the sashimo and sometimes repeated on the helmet and front and back of armor. A easy way to do this is A: buy Perry's decals or B: Buy VVV decals and get the 15mm size for Ashigaru helemts and armor. I usally get whit for the armor but I have used red with good effect.
To make my life eaiser I use the same color lace on the armor light blue, yellow, red were popular. Uniform colors would be almost any pastal color. To have a real easy unit paint some of iI units, the Red Devils They all wore Red armor with red spears and red banners. Mine have black spears but oh well. The Samurai all have there names on the banners (I have a link with Samuari names I picked the easy ones). The Ashigau banner say "Godzilla" I get a laugh from people who can read Japanese.
Your Yari would be red or black laqured staffs. Wood color would be rare.
Monks would fight as Samurai and orginized as such. The Ikko Ikki also made a lot of use of Teppo.
Your Samurai would be like knights. diffrent colored uniforms, lace and armor would be black, red or brown. I picked up some Vallajo gloss and after they are done I very, very carfully gloss just the armor to give a shine to a few Samurai.
The most popular weapon is the Yari by this peroid. You can either mix or match Yari and Katana. I just seperate them into diffrent units they fight the same. Yari would also be black or red. The only unit I have the same color armor is my unit of Red Devils and since they are Samurai they have diffrent colored uniforms.
Also, If you are doing more that one ubit of the same clan (mon) the Japanese used black bars on the top, bottom or both to tell them apart. Perry's decal set includes these also.
On the Tate (Pavise) The mon would also be displayed. So I can use them where I want them I just put a doulbe black band on top.
Let me know if you have any other questions.
Irondog
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irondog068
- Staff Sergeant - Kavallerie
- Posts: 325
- Joined: Sun Feb 10, 2008 7:51 pm
- Location: Chicago IL
Generals that were assissnated: None
Maede Toshie: Died peacfully before 1600 campaign
Toshinaga: Backed wrong horse in 1600 campaign died in battle or sepiku after loss at Senikhara
Li (iI I have seen it both ways) Nataka: Died of wounds suffered at Senikhara Fighting for Tokugawa
Tokigawa: Winner of Senikhara became 2nd ShoGun. Novel ShoGun is based roughly on his life died peacfully.
Nambu: 99% was not killed by Ninja (who even though used by both sides were thought to be scum of the earth)
Kato Kiomasa: Loyal General to Tokugawa. Died peacfully very suddenly, possibly posined by Tokugawa as he was a very powerful and well liked general and possibly a threat to the new ShoGun.
Maede Toshie: Died peacfully before 1600 campaign
Toshinaga: Backed wrong horse in 1600 campaign died in battle or sepiku after loss at Senikhara
Li (iI I have seen it both ways) Nataka: Died of wounds suffered at Senikhara Fighting for Tokugawa
Tokigawa: Winner of Senikhara became 2nd ShoGun. Novel ShoGun is based roughly on his life died peacfully.
Nambu: 99% was not killed by Ninja (who even though used by both sides were thought to be scum of the earth)
Kato Kiomasa: Loyal General to Tokugawa. Died peacfully very suddenly, possibly posined by Tokugawa as he was a very powerful and well liked general and possibly a threat to the new ShoGun.
well, firstly can I say thanks very much for a very informative post!
Though its a shame these are not the right figs for FOG they will be used for it unless tourney organisers object......... I am holding of painting them at the moment till I get the basing details sorted when the book is released........ though I suspect it will be 3 on a base throughout anyway.
Ive gone for a nice pastel blue for ashigaru clothing, with some red bits to contrast it and the odd spot of orange to clash a little an bust the figs up.
Sashimonos are being applied with reckless abandon....... partly because I have them but mainly because they look very cool, IMHO.
I can sense a lot of 'these count as' conversations with opponents before games, but any excuse to use nice figs! especially when there appears to be 5-600 of them in the box! theyre gonna get used one way or another!
jon
Though its a shame these are not the right figs for FOG they will be used for it unless tourney organisers object......... I am holding of painting them at the moment till I get the basing details sorted when the book is released........ though I suspect it will be 3 on a base throughout anyway.
Ive gone for a nice pastel blue for ashigaru clothing, with some red bits to contrast it and the odd spot of orange to clash a little an bust the figs up.
Sashimonos are being applied with reckless abandon....... partly because I have them but mainly because they look very cool, IMHO.
I can sense a lot of 'these count as' conversations with opponents before games, but any excuse to use nice figs! especially when there appears to be 5-600 of them in the box! theyre gonna get used one way or another!
jon