Movement rules - joining of two forces

[Pico2014]

Hey,
Short question:
I have two stacks of troops, stack 1 in region A, stack 2 in B, next to A. Stack 1 is the main force and significantly stronger than stack 2.
i want to reinforce stack 1 with stack 2 and i move to join them. Then i move the main stack, stack 1, in region C, to attack the enemy.
It is working as intended, stack 2 reinforces 1 and the complete stack moves into the enemy region.

My question: why?
Why moves stack 2 before stack 1? Is it random, pure luck or exist a rule for that (terrain/movement cost, movement range,...). Just want to have this clear this for future situations.

Thank you!

[USGrant1962]

Most likely it is terrain. If stack 2 is moving on a road, or Region A is fewer movement points than Region C, stack 2 will catch up while stack 1 is moving into Region C.

[Pico2014]

Thank you!
I checked it out and all three Regions have hills with roads, all cost 3 movement.
Stack 2 has movement 4, same as Stack 1.
But Stack 2 has general with +1 Movement trait. And i think this was the reason, that stack 2 reached stack 1 before stack 1 started marching.

I tested some movement scenarios and whenever movement costs were the same, both stacks moved at once, so stack 2 never reached stack 1. Even if stack 2 only has light inf with Movement 5 compared to movement 4 (stack 1).
But whenever stack 2 has this +1 movement general they reach stack 1.

So this seems to be crucial in the described scenario (equal terrain movement costs).

Would appreciate if somebody confirms this or explains the mechanic in case conclusion is wrong (general trait is responsible).


Regards

[loki100]

there is a random element, each 'phase' in the movement turn sees every available unit expend 1 MP (sooner or later units start to drop out as they have expended all their potential move allowance). In many situations the unit may not move a province till it has accumulated enough phases to pay the cost.

within the list of eligible units to expend a MP, there is a random element, so a given unit may be selected before an equally placed unit, so for eg it may exit the target region before another unit moves in

[Pocus]

Loki is right. Faction order is randomized in each impulse, so you never know if Rome or Carthage will get to move first in a given impulse. Often it does not change much, as regions cost several movement points, but when you only need this last point to get 'out of dodge' so to speak, then you better be first!

[Pico2014]

Thank you!
Think i got the basics. And if there is an random element i‘m totally fine with it.

I would like to ask another question, which is also related to army movement in some way.
As far as is understand, thx to your reply and other threads, arnys move within 12 impulses, as long as they have MP.
An arny defends a region if they already stood there before the engagement for minimum of 4 impulses. If that is not the case it always (?) the bigger army is stated as defender.
Yesterday i had a situation where this was not the case.
I moved into a hostile region and some impulses later an ebeny army arrived in that region and battle occured - thought i would be defender no matter what (settled or not because i had the bigger army). But i was attacker. Which was quite good in that case because of general cunning^^ but it confused me a little.
Am i missing sonething? Random element? (Enemy had 18 units, me 23 so difference not that big; combat values 180 to 86).

Thanks in advance.

[Swuul]

My question: why?
Why moves stack 2 before stack 1?

Stacks who have a +1 or +2 movement (from general) use the extra movement *before* regular impulses of the turn. Thus if it took 1 impulse for stack B to move to stack A, they both essentially were in same region when "normal" movement impulses began, ie they moved together.

Likewise, a stack who is led by -1 movement general loses the first "normal" impulse, and starts acting only on the second "normal" impulse.

Also notice that the possibility for combat is only checked at the start (ie before anybody moves) of an impulse when a stack can activate. I the actual combat the attacker will be the side activating first, unless the other side has at least one static stack (ie is not attempting to move from the area, and has not arrived to the region during the past 4 impulses) in which case that side will automatically be the defender.

[Pico2014]

Really appreciate your detailed explanation!

One question remains for me:
You said, the side who activates first is the attacker (if no one is „settled“). So in the actual battle this was me (as i was stated as attacker). But why did i „activate“ first in the impulse round where the enemy army reached the region and battle occured. I didnt even move in that impulse.

Again, thank you for your answer.

[Swuul]

But why did i „activate“ first in the impulse round where the enemy army reached the region and battle occured. I didnt even move in that impulse.

It doesn't matter if you actually moved or not, as long as you were in the process of moving or hadn't been ordered to move during the previous 4 impulses. As for the activation order, this is randomised for each impulse (ie all countries are randomly set in order for that impulse; if your "turn" came before that other country, then you attacked, even if you didn't move as such (as long as you were not deemed to be the automatic defender)). Next impulse the order of activation for all countries is once again randomised, etc.

[Pico2014]

Ok, i try to summarize it:

My stack stays in the region, not settled, so no automatic defender. For the relevant impulse i was randomly ranked before the enemy, so i activate first. This actually does not have any direct impact because i dont want to move. Then enemy is activated, „pays“ his movement point and enters „my“ region. Battle starts. Game checks who was activated first in the actual impulse-round, it was me so i attack. So You maybe could translate this activation order as some sort of (random) initiative(?)

Thank you.

P.S. : what exactly are roads doing related to army-movement (some sort of discount i think but how does it work out?)

[loki100]

...

P.S. : what exactly are roads doing related to army-movement (some sort of discount i think but how does it work out?)

thats an easier one, the who is the attacker etc is sort of clear but its not something you can influence (unless you start in the region and have no move orders at all).

ok, any 2 provinces along the road pay less MP to enter from that direction, so for eg one army may pay 2 MP to enter a given region and another say 4 MP depending on the terrain and layout of the road network. So its not an in-province bonus but an inter-province bonus where the roads actually connect.

edit - so going back to the earlier discussion, its possible a unit moving by road can enter and leave a region before an intercepting force can arrive, obv depends on both the MP differentials and this issue of the order of faction activation.

[Swuul]

Ok, i try to summarize it:

My stack stays in the region, not settled, so no automatic defender. For the relevant impulse i was randomly ranked before the enemy, so i activate first. This actually does not have any direct impact because i dont want to move. Then enemy is activated, „pays“ his movement point and enters „my“ region. Battle starts. Game checks who was activated first in the actual impulse-round, it was me so i attack.

Almost, but not quite The possibility for combat is checked each impulse before movement (though existence of hostile non-citygarrison stack in the region halts the ongoing movement order for the impulse). Thus the activation order on the impulse when the hostile stack arrives in the the region does not matter, it is the activation on the impulse when the combat is initiated (ie the next impulse after the hostile stacks entered the same region) that matters.

[Pico2014]

Thank you guys.

@Swuul: Got it.
@Loki: That roads work inter-region is interesting, thought the road level inside the destination region is mostly important. Your answer explains my experiences. So from Region A (no roads, hilly, MP-Cost=3) to Region B (road lvl 2, hilly, MP-Cost 3**) units "pay" 3 MP even so there is Road Lvl2 in Region B. But from B to Region C (road Lvl 2, hilly, 3**) it only pays just one more!
Difference from road lvl 1 to road lvl 2 actually seems to be (for me) the road Network level in the destination region. If i march from lvl 2 to lvl 1 road network (same terrain) i have to pay 2 MP, if i'm marching from lvl 1 into lvl 2 i pay just 1 MP. Dont know if this could be seen as "rule" or is more related to up- or downrounding of MP or if i miss some other parameters^^

But i'm totally ok with my current knowledge for this topic:) Thanks to your answers i learned a lot new stuff.
Very good!


Best regards
Pico