Dunkirk and Valkenburg Raid in AO 1940

[Kerensky]

So...

These pretty controversial scenario designs don't seem to be catching a lot of FlaK like some of the other past new and potentially controversial designs have (or maybe people are busy discussing Sea Lion and its SPOILERIFIC result).

But a scenario that is built purely around paratroopers and aircraft... and then a scenario that only allows aircraft to the total mandatory exclusion of everything else. That's a bit of a leap for Panzer Corps 2, and doesn't have a precedent in this game (in a campaign setting) so far.

I'm good with quiet acceptance (I prefer loud acceptance like with regards to the CP system and people always wanting more more MORE from it heheh), but I want to make sure these sorts of designs are a good direction to continue to grow the game into. There is the obvious elephant in the room of Crete and the Balkans potentially coming up next (doubly so because they were absent from the mainline game), but beyond that... if people are okay with aircraft only scenarios, there is a lot of room to grow in this regard.

If the only ground units on the map are friendly AI, and you can only bring your aircraft... that could be a crazy cool situation to be in. There's definitely more than one place in the war that would fit into very nicely, without the concern of the player bringing their full army to the battle and just steamrolling the entire map to victory as they normally would.

So as they say in weddings, "If any of you has a reason why these two should not be joined in union, speak now or forever hold your peace."

[Vorskl]

I personally highly appreciate such scenarios coz they force you to try something new. Most of the experienced players would stock up excellent Soviet arty and various prototype tanks already in Spain, not to mention in Poland. So without forced use of Para or AirForce, most of such players would default to a classic 'storm and steamroll' tactics, which leads to boredom and exhaustion with the game.

[adiekmann]

When it was disclosed that there would be an aircraft only scenario, I assumed it would be the opening round of Sealion, or Dover. I never guessed Dunkirk. That was a nice surprise! It made sense and was different. I liked it a lot. It is sometimes hard to get experience on aircraft in this game compared to its predecessor.

A trick or tip I would like to share is this: I quickly realized that the enemy's AA guns were unlikely to inflict significant kills on my aircraft. Therefore, I began deliberately sending my fighters in particularly to attack enemy units that were squarely parked in the middle of a hornet's nest of enemy AA guns. The defensive fire triggered from my attack, coupled with the AI's turn quickly garnered defensive awards. Within a couple of turns, I had maxed out my ""Heroic Defense" award of +2 defense and survivor on the majority of my fighters! The only reason not more of my aircraft did is because I still had the scenario objectives to meet to win, so there was a limit to how many of these kind of moves I could afford to do.

I have only done one play through so far and I chose the Belgium path. (I was really looking forward to play the Hannut battle!) Therefore I have not played Valkenburg Raid yet to offer any comment.

I would say yes to future scenarios like these, but don't go crazy with them! Only when something that really fits, not "every DLC now needs an aircraft only map" kind of thing.

Looking way into the future, I can also easily envision some creative ways where airborne only battles can be utilized in both Overlord and Market Garden battles.

[Scrapulous]

I enjoyed the Dunkirk raid. I also went into Belgium and so haven't tried Valkenburg yet. I'd like to see more of these air-only scenarios. I especially enjoy using paratroopers and would love to see more airborne-focused scenarios in the future.

adiekmann: that's a great tip, both for getting xp (most of my aircraft seem to get the majority of their xp from being shot at, not from shooting), and for getting those awards. My approach to Dunkirk was to strip heroes off my other units and load them onto my air force. I have two zero slots heroes and a reduced slots hero, so I had a lot of aircraft, and some of them were pretty effective, using hero combinations I would never have tried in a scenario with land units (a zero slots, consolidator, no retaliation, double attack fighter was my most noteworthy one, but a Ju-87 that couldn't be suppressed was fun, too). I hate enemy AA, so I focused on taking them out as soon as possible, rather than milking them for experience. I salute your inventiveness.

[adiekmann]

My approach to Dunkirk was to strip heroes off my other units and load them onto my air force.

Far more than either of the previous DLCs, I found myself constantly shuffling around my heroes from map to map. Perhaps in part because of the diversity of battles; some that used few or no tanks, for instance, and others that used mainly paratroopers.

[WalterTFD]

I liked the Dunkirk raid a lot, different kind of training mission. First bonus point I've missed so far, just couldn't get the last few anti aircraft guns. I actually lost a fighter, too, the English have, reasonably enough, a lot of reinforcements, and it seems like they are good at finding my planes outside their LOS (radar maybe?).

Valkenburg was alright, I dunno, it felt like the enemy was divided into 'mobile forces', who fought back and garrison forces, who just stood there while I went about my business.

Hrrngh, I dunno, I guess what I'm trying to gripe about is 'turn key' scenarios, where the only path to victory is to do the thing that the game says to do, with the units it gives you to do it. It feels vaguely, I dunno, tutorial-esque? Like, I'm going to use the Falks I just trained up to take the airports I'm told to take and then the hop from there to the objectives. It's hard to express, but it feels like, I dunno, I'm just going through the motions? That is, every player, on every playthrough, is going to be doing the same thing on this kind of mission. If it didn't work, the scenario wouldn't work, so I know it'll be fine.

I get that, on some level, that's the whole single player turn based wargame experience, it just feels more heavy handed on those kind of missions.

So as not to be a downer, I'll relate that I just finished Abbeville, and that was a spectacular mission! Numerous, aggressive enemies, objectives on to hold on the wrong side of the river, 4 armies clashing and the Nemesis doing his thing. Right in PC2's strike zone, an excellent chance for the player to put their army through some destructive testing.

[Kerensky]

When it was disclosed that there would be an aircraft only scenario, I assumed it would be the opening round of Sealion, or Dover. I never guessed Dunkirk. That was a nice surprise! It made sense and was different. I liked it a lot. It is sometimes hard to get experience on aircraft in this game compared to its predecessor.

I don't know how that got into people's heads, but I was reading more than one person talking about it. I found it especially amusing, and didn't feel the need to correct it and just let the content speak for itself. I guess because even though historically Dunkirk was German aircraft only involved for several reasons, we've played the scenario in more than a few games by now and just sort of expect it to be the fictional ground attack to crush the pocket entirely.

So by doing the historical thing, we ironically surprised some people's expectations. I think that shows just how many of these WW2 games we've all seen and played, and why it's so important to keep pushing the 'new stuff' angle hard, because some of us really have already seen these things done in many other games already.

Of course there's some stuff you just have to have in your WW2 game to be a proper WW2 game, like Stalingrad and D-Day and Battle of the Bulge. But the war wasn't just those and a few other super well known battles...

[IceSerpent]

Hrrngh, I dunno, I guess what I'm trying to gripe about is 'turn key' scenarios, where the only path to victory is to do the thing that the game says to do, with the units it gives you to do it. It feels vaguely, I dunno, tutorial-esque? Like, I'm going to use the Falks I just trained up to take the airports I'm told to take and then the hop from there to the objectives. It's hard to express, but it feels like, I dunno, I'm just going through the motions? That is, every player, on every playthrough, is going to be doing the same thing on this kind of mission. If it didn't work, the scenario wouldn't work, so I know it'll be fine.

You don't have to do it that way. I only took one airfield with paratroopers (the one in the middle of the map), and only because I couldn't rebase aircraft straight to Valkenburg. Cleared the rest of the airfields with Luftwaffe. Naval base was taken by ground forces advancing along the northern road. I think the only part that you don't really have any options about is Valkenburg itself - have to use paratroopers in that spot.

[IceSerpent]

I'm good with quiet acceptance (I prefer loud acceptance like with regards to the CP system and people always wanting more more MORE from it heheh), but I want to make sure these sorts of designs are a good direction to continue to grow the game into. There is the obvious elephant in the room of Crete and the Balkans potentially coming up next (doubly so because they were absent from the mainline game), but beyond that... if people are okay with aircraft only scenarios, there is a lot of room to grow in this regard.

I think it's a very good direction. Just need to make sure that scenarios requiring a specific kind of gameplay work regardless of the chosen traits, or at least warn player to not take "problematic" traits.

[Tassadar]

Dunkirk is optional, so that makes room for different options. As long as this approach is maintained for such scenarios the first time around I think people should be happy with the way new ideas are introduced. Limiting unit types available not just by soft suggestions, but hard requirements can entourage having a larger core and thus in turn give different units a chance to shine, even those in deeper reserve.In main scenarios I prefer Valkenburg Raid approach - a scenario doable, but extremely hard without designated units and also on a branching path in case it proves too difficult. That's a fair idea. I'm already past Dunkirk right now (just going about updating my AAR) and that seemed like a nice refreshing experience. The bunker blockades seemed logical, while a bit unnatural in terms of immersion, but that's about the only issue I had with this, aside from maybe the fact I had perfect weather all the way which is a bit far from actual history.

That said, I see some potential danger in such scenarios with certain details:

• Retrograde can affect some significantly, like in Valkenburg Raid where it denies the player a chance to get any paratroopers at all. Thus existing traits can cause an issue and maybe doing a quick checklist verification of possible impact could help avoid similar situations.

• The player might not have enough experienced units of the type to achieve a goal. Thus training missions seems great to preceded such missions, either directly or on mission away to allow to compensate for it.Valkenburg Raid has it and Dunkirk should not need it since by that time having an experienced air force is more than possible, but it's worth remembering.

• Keeping the scale small and expanding if the reception id good.

[Snake97644]

I also enjoyed it, good change of pace. I also appreciated the opportunity to improve my infantry and air experience.