Captured unit tier list - AO based

[Magic1111]

Vega is a Nemesis, an enemy Unit gifted with a unique and powerful Hero. Since when you capture it all you get is the Equipment, it loses the Nemesis and thus the powerful Traits it had as an enemy.

Where does the name "nemesis" for such hero AI units come from? What does nemesis mean?

Probably we don't know the term in German language ?!

[Waffenamt]

She was the ancient Greek goddess of divine retribution, hence a fearsome purveyor of justice. Not somebody you'd want to get on the wrong side of.
Regards

[Stormchaser]

Vega is a Nemesis, an enemy Unit gifted with a unique and powerful Hero. Since when you capture it all you get is the Equipment, it loses the Nemesis and thus the powerful Traits it had as an enemy.

Where does the name "nemesis" for such hero AI units come from? What does nemesis mean?

Probably we don't know the term in German language ?!

Along with the Greek Goddess origins as mentioned above, in the more modern day it has become a term for a person's greatest adversary.
For example, the Joker would be Batman's nemesis.

[scorehouse]

i thought he meant is it an actual Hero that we can acquire?

[Magic1111]

Ah, now I understand, many thanks @ all!

I´m completely unfamiliar with greek mythology as it doesn't interest me.

I knew of course that this meant the units with the strong AI heroes, and that Nemesis is not the name of a hero in the game.
I just didn't know the name Nemesis.

[adiekmann]

Ah, now I understand, many thanks @ all!

I´m completely unfamiliar with greek mythology as it doesn't interest me.

I knew of course that this meant the units with the strong AI heroes, and that Nemesis is not the name of a hero in the game.
I just didn't know the name Nemesis.

...and critics complain that people don't learn anything from playing computer/video games!!

[Magic1111]

...and critics complain that people don't learn anything from playing computer/video games!!

[Kerensky]

...and critics complain that people don't learn anything from playing computer/video games!!

When I was little, like pre-teen young, I was the most knowledgeable kid in the class when it came to world geography. This was entirely because of games and war games taking place in far off regions like Europe and Asia. Far off relative to the USA that is.

[scorehouse]

wekk Mr. K what about the nemesis hero?

[adiekmann]

...and critics complain that people don't learn anything from playing computer/video games!!

When I was little, like pre-teen young, I was the most knowledgeable kid in the class when it came to world geography. This was entirely because of games and war games taking place in far off regions like Europe and Asia. Far off relative to the USA that is.

Yes, that was true for me as well. But I was curious about geography and history at a young age anyway. I knew I wanted to be a history major in college already when I was 8 years old. Seriously, and later I did indeed get my degree in history.

But also in other ways it taught me lots of things too. For example, remember the days (c. late 80s) when it seemed to be a given that a newly installed game wasn't going to work without some tinkering with your system? Computer games indirectly was a big reason why and how I came to learn to use a computer/DOS commands. And yet we all complain today when something doesn't work perfectly from the start...

[Tassadar]

With AO 1940 completed under the Panzermon run, I've added available AO 1940 equipment and tweaked some comments regarding 1939 stuff that can be found later. Also, added the T-38 to the AO 1939 list, as apparently one can be found in the Brest Litovsk scenario.

[Stormchaser]

You forgot one, Tassadar.
And how could you? After all, who could ever forget the fearsome D.XXIl?

[monkspider]

I love your tier lists my man, very through! I hope you keep them up for all the DLCs!

[Tassadar]

You forgot one, Tassadar.
And how could you? After all, who could ever forget the fearsome D.XXIl?

Whoops!

I keep the leading post in txt format to make quick notes when alt-tabbed and it looks like I forgot to save that change. It also does not help that in my Panzermon run the different captured unit list is huge and loads more and more slowly with each DLC. Looks like loading all the unit models can start to add up at this point.

I love your tier lists my man, very through! I hope you keep them up for all the DLCs!

Thanks! That's the plan - I like having things like this organized in some way and since I'm already running an Excel for my captured units tracking (not yet with charts, but I could see this as well...) sharing some insight like this is faster. Guess my daily work does impact the approach towards my games to some degree.

[Tassadar]

I've now updated the leading post with 1941 captures, but... I exceeded the allowed amount of characters in a single post (apparently it exists!).

As such, I've attached it as a zip with a Word file instead of spreading between separate posts.

[Edmon]

In my humble opinion, the KV2 is the best unit you can capture by far and thus a solid 10/10. The reason is it's frankly outrageous ground defence, which prevents most units from being able to do even a single point of damage, and its artillery mode. The artillery mode is perfect for attacking targets that normally murder tanks (like infantry in close tiles), while still retaining that ground defence that prevents anything from even scratching it. Making it the most robust anti-infantry artillery you will ever see in this game considering when you get access to it.

Also, I think the Hurricane is the games best fighter for a long time, if you can get access to readiness, strike first, no retaliation or similar. It has +1 attack over a normal fighter and is better than any other fighter against ground, especially against hard. As long as you can bypass the intiative problem it has with a hero or set of heroes, it will dominate the sky. A set of them is the perfect target for BAR, who can switch seemlessly from downing two aircraft every turn to strafing ground targets into the dirt twice a turn.

Nice list though, lots of effort went into it. Quite cool.

[Tassadar]

I did not update the KV-2 info past the 1939 Denmark scenario since I was doing this per DLC, so that's a likely candidate for better evaluation indeed, just like a few others that get better over time in certain circumstances. I guess I'll have to go back at one point and review existing info, maybe add combos with specific heroes as well.

The Hurricane is indeed great, but as I painfully found out in the Panzermon AAR, the AI just loves to target them. It does seem to be the fact of that low initiative you mention and the fact fighters do not support each other, being quite vulnerable overall. Readiness, First Strike and No Retaliation are certainly good, but the last one possibly the weakest, as it only works when attacking. I'm also curious how it would perform with Ambusher - would the AI still target it and ultimately get absolutely destroyed?

[Edmon]

I did not update the KV-2 info past the 1939 Denmark scenario since I was doing this per DLC, so that's a likely candidate for better evaluation indeed, just like a few others that get better over time in certain circumstances. I guess I'll have to go back at one point and review existing info, maybe add combos with specific heroes as well.

The Hurricane is indeed great, but as I painfully found out in the Panzermon AAR, the AI just loves to target them. It does seem to be the fact of that low initiative you mention and the fact fighters do not support each other, being quite vulnerable overall. Readiness, First Strike and No Retaliation are certainly good, but the last one possibly the weakest, as it only works when attacking. I'm also curious how it would perform with Ambusher - would the AI still target it and ultimately get absolutely destroyed?

The are two ways to "fix" the hurricane, the hero way and the cheese way that requires no heroes. I don't really see how camo will help a fighter, as you ideally want it in combat and you don't want to lose any.

The cheese way is simple, if you surround the hurricane with non-fighters, then it can't be attacked. So you buy recon planes (aux ones perferably, real ones if you like, if you are using aux then a full set of them costs basically nothing) and make sure there are no gaps around it. Meaning that anyone attacking any of the aircraft around the hurricane have to face it's full wrath before doing any damage to any of the things it is defending and it is impossible to attack it directly. This happens naturally if your airport is full, if you place it in the center tile. So it's important to deploy your fighter in the center, to create this effect in the early turns when enemy air presence might be high.

The hero way is to add the heroes I mentioned before. Either both readiness and no retaliation together so it can attack and defend with impunity (3rd hero should be BAR). Or first strike + BAR. Or two heroes that improve Initiative + Bar (like Through Prep + Galland).

It does need a little creativeness or certain heroes to fix, it offers something you can't get in any other unit. Extreme power. For a fighter, it eats artillery, units in transports, recons and other targets for breakfast. Where other fighters would do 1 maybe 2 points of damage, with a few +hard awards (cross class a tactical if you want), the hurricane can do some real damage. Which is a great way to exploit BAR, since he may only be placed on a fighter.


Edit: To give an example of the power of an ideal build:
Tank killer + BAR + First Strike. Crossclass a tactical that has +2 versus hard (unlikely you have +3 so early, but possible).
Hurricane will always shoot first and will enjoy +4, +2 and +5 hard attack for (+11 total). This is more than most tacticals have, by default and a great way to get a double strike fighter and tactical, all in one unit.

[Scrapulous]

The Hurricane's soft attack stat is nothing special: 3. That's equal to the Bf109E, F, and G. It's the hard attack stat that is higher. It's not any better than your other fighters are at taking out artillery or infantry, for instance.

[Edmon]

The Hurricane's soft attack stat is nothing special: 3. That's equal to the Bf109E, F, and G. It's the hard attack stat that is higher. It's not any better than your other fighters are at taking out artillery or infantry, for instance.

Well that really depends in that infantry or artillery is motorized and/or moving around in a hard transport.

11 hard is a really important value to reach, because it's +5 above the 6 defence of most hard units in 1939. Additionally, the very hard units and 1940 units, like the Char B1 have 10 defence, so it is just barely above those too. Meaning that most hits are going to be kills.

What is important, soft attack wise, is that the hurricane still enjoys 3 anti-soft. Most artillery has either 3 air defence or as little as 1 in the case of some of the 21cm guns. So you are still at (or with awards) above the air defence of these soft targets.

This gives you huge flexibility for a fighter, as fighters are usually wasted slots after 4-8 turns, when the enemy airforce is mostly or entirely defeated. It is perfect for BAR, because his double attack is otherwise wasted once the enemy airforce is defeated. You effectively gain another tactical and one better able to defend itself and with superior range.