Spanish Civil War -(very) early impressions

[Huygens]

So far, I find the game, as a whole, very enjoyable. The Spanish Civil War campaign is very interesting to me, as it's a campaign I have known only through history books, hadn't played it in a wargame.

I really like the briefings, as they both help to set the tone and provide some useful tips on how to approach each scenario. I also like the debriefings, as you can compare the results you achieved to what happened, historically, in this situation.

Some observations:

This is the first campaign I've played in PC2, as I felt it'd be best to approach the campaigns chronologically. So, I'm not entirely certain if it's meant as an "introductory" campaign, but if feels quite challenging (on the 3rd of the 5 difficulty settings), mainly due to the lack of infantry and the fact that the air force of the Condor Legion is rather underwhelming, at least in the first 3 scenarios that I've experienced.

The recon cars are very useful thanks to their phased movement and not too shabby in a fight. The recon plane, I just sent it to reserves and replaced it with an A/A units, both to counter the troublesome air force of the Republicans and because the recon plane (at least this model, though from the presentation videos I've watched it would seem that the same holds true for later models) does not have phased movement, and thus once moved, it has to stay there (I play on Ironman, as I find the "undo" action far too gamey and an exploit).

Speaking of the undo movement, is there a way to set the parameters so that you could only take back a movement (not an attack) provided that said movement did not reveal the position of an enemy unit or fortification? (again, I feel it would be too gamey, imo).

I really like heroes and medals, they make for more individual units, plus it's a tangible way of translating what happened during a mission to rewards that enhance the unit's performance.

I am not sure I like the fact that units can receive full reinforcements while in contact with enemy units; but I'm non the fence on this one, I feel I need to see more examples of how it works, though I have to admit I found it very annoying when I had to chase an enemy infantry unit around some mountains, where it had been receiving full reinforcements. I think that the system in OoB was more "logical".

I like very much the fact that surrendered units become available to recruit in your army, but with very limited reinforcements available. It makes for an added goal during a mission, to capture a unit that's superior to what you have readily available. In fact, I like this system so much that I would argue that even our own country's units should not have unlimited replacements available, but rather a limited pool. Far more generous than captured equipment, but limited nonetheless. Right now, prestige (with the Liberator trait), which limits what you can get, does not seem to be much of an issue, but, admittedly, it's very early in my campaign.

So, I would have to say that my biggest concern so far is the fact that severely battered units can go back to full (or almost full) strength even when in contact with several enemy units. This makes the annihilation of enemy units a top priority, when strategically and tactically it might be better to allocate resources to dislodging a target from a valuable hex (again, the example of that st1 infantry unit that retreat to some snow-capped mountains and instead of disbanding came back to full strength and in a couple of turns was back to pester me, springs to mind).

Overall, though, I have been enjoying my Spanish campaign.

[Stormchaser]

The recon cars are very useful thanks to their phased movement and not too shabby in a fight. The recon plane, I just sent it to reserves and replaced it with an A/A units, both to counter the troublesome air force of the Republicans and because the recon plane (at least this model, though from the presentation videos I've watched it would seem that the same holds true for later models) does not have phased movement, and thus once moved, it has to stay there (I play on Ironman, as I find the "undo" action far too gamey and an exploit).

Yeah, the lack of Phased Movement really does hurt Recon Planes. Sure I could park them over a difficult to kill enemy, but 9 times out of 10 I'd rather use a bomber on them. There are also Double Move and Phased Movement Heroes, but I'd rather have them on my Tanks and Infantry.

Speaking of the undo movement, is there a way to set the parameters so that you could only take back a movement (not an attack) provided that said movement did not reveal the position of an enemy unit or fortification? (again, I feel it would be too gamey, imo).

There is a way to get most of that. When selecting a campaign to start, there is an option under the Difficulty Selection called Advanced Options. At the top of that menu, there are 2 drop lists that let you set both how many Undos you get as well as whether you can undo Movement, Attacks, or both.

I am not sure I like the fact that units can receive full reinforcements while in contact with enemy units; but I'm non the fence on this one, I feel I need to see more examples of how it works, though I have to admit I found it very annoying when I had to chase an enemy infantry unit around some mountains, where it had been receiving full reinforcements. I think that the system in OoB was more "logical".

Yeah, chasing and repeatedly almost killing an enemy is annoying, but at least the player can do this as well.

I like very much the fact that surrendered units become available to recruit in your army, but with very limited reinforcements available. It makes for an added goal during a mission, to capture a unit that's superior to what you have readily available. In fact, I like this system so much that I would argue that even our own country's units should not have unlimited replacements available, but rather a limited pool. Far more generous than captured equipment, but limited nonetheless. Right now, prestige (with the Liberator trait), which limits what you can get, does not seem to be much of an issue, but, admittedly, it's very early in my campaign.

I think that falls under the sort of grey area between things skilled players would like to give a better challenge vs things more casual and less skilled/optimal players would hate Kerensky has brought up a few times. And if you want the game to be a success for as many people as possible you have to keep bith ends of the player base in mind. You can, sorta, get something similar to that by taking the General Trait that gives you 15-20 of a random Prototype every Scenario.
As for Prestige being more limited, higher difficulties reduce the amount you can earn, and there is a Special Challenge setting in the Advanced Options that reduces it further. There are multiple AARs that play on max difficulty and explicitly don't pick Liberator or Trophies of War to not trivialize the difficulty.

Anyway, glad to hear you are having fun though. SCW is, in my opinion, the harder of the 2 Axis Operations released so far do to the limitations on Units you can aquire (No Core Infantry is brutal at times, but at least you get Italian Auxilaries) and their capabilities versus the enemy units (Panzer I vs T-26 is not a fun time without a lot of support). 1939, while still fun, doesn't have the limitations and with the exception of a handful of units (mostly higher end French tanks) it definitely feels like what you have available is on par or superior to what the enemy has.

[Huygens]

I just finished the 3rd scenario, Merida, and I felt like the difficulty went up significantly: a far wider front, one well defended military base in Badajoz, Caceres (the 5th victory hex) was quite far, north of Guadiana river.

I did manage to get all victory hexes and capture Bandajoz, but it was tough. I failed to kill the Republican hero, as he fled north of the river and in his last ditch attempt to break the siege of Badajoz there were far too many enemy units around (and that blasted fort) that protected him from encirclement.

My core army survived and I now have my first stars. Sadly, the Republican air force proved far too resilient and had many bases at its disposal which cost my 3 strength points from my best artillery unit (the one I found stashed in the previous scenario).

Overall I am pleased with how the scenario went and I'm definitely happy with my decision to mothball my recon plane and replace it with a second A/A gun, it helped a lot, I cannot imagine how I'd be able to cover such a wide front with just one A/A unit.

The Nationalist infantry did ok, although I feel that under my command (as in the first scenario) they'd be more useful.

This was the first scenario where I had to spent a significant amount of prestige, as I had to stretch my forces quite thin, in order to defend the middle and attack Badajoz to the west and Caceres to the north. It was also the first scenario where I felt that, had I followed the advice I got during the briefing, I would have failed to get the bonus objectives, or at least one of them.

I still haven't found an opportunity to try the split/merge option, which looked interesting in the tutorial/challenge scenario but in the campaign I'm already hard pressed to upgrade my equipment with the slots I have, let alone leave some free for splitting my units; maybe I should have picked some negative traits to get the bonus that allows for this tactic at no slot cost: without it, I find it highly impractical and possibly detrimental, leaving slots unused in case you'd need to split some unit (which is inherently risky, anyway).

The Italian forces were instrumental in capturing Badajoz. Without infantry, it's very hard to assault in close terrain. I augmented them with an artillery piece, though I keep thinking that it might have been better to buy an A/T gun and the bridging infantry to assault the Republican guns to the north of Bandajoz. Luckily, I had a strategic bomber (the other two from the previous scenario I had to mothball, in order to get enough slots to field the captured heavy artillery -which, sadly, I failed to protect fully) so I was able to capture the base, so that's something.

I like the fact that in all three scenarios thus far the Republicans counterattack once a key objective is lost. This, combined with the superior equipment they are fielding (sadly I failed to capture that impressive T-26 tank, I needed just 1 strength point to be able to field it myself in the next scenario) makes for a tense battle to the end.

[Scrapulous]

This is the first campaign I've played in PC2, as I felt it'd be best to approach the campaigns chronologically. So, I'm not entirely certain if it's meant as an "introductory" campaign, but if feels quite challenging (on the 3rd of the 5 difficulty settings), mainly due to the lack of infantry and the fact that the air force of the Condor Legion is rather underwhelming, at least in the first 3 scenarios that I've experienced.

I can't speak for the intent, but I wouldn't recommend SCW as an introductory campaign. It's difficult, uses several non-standard mechanics, and managing the allied forces can be fiddly. I would be surprised to learn that it was intended to be an introduction to the game.

The recon cars are very useful thanks to their phased movement and not too shabby in a fight.

Stat-wise, the better recon cars in SCW are competitive with average tanks in SCW. It's a great period if you like to play with a lot of armored cars, and if you can make use of the advantages armored cars get, you can make most or all of your mobile force armored cars while running circles around the better enemy tanks.

I am not sure I like the fact that units can receive full reinforcements while in contact with enemy units; but I'm non the fence on this one, I feel I need to see more examples of how it works, though I have to admit I found it very annoying when I had to chase an enemy infantry unit around some mountains, where it had been receiving full reinforcements. I think that the system in OoB was more "logical".

This bothered me at first, but I have since come to appreciate it. In PC2, encirclement is the way to achieve the effect you're looking for. It seems clear that it was a deliberate design decision to emphasize the importance of the new supply system and the pain of being encircled. It can be expensive in terms of turn cost, but you can encircle a powerful enemy unit and let it slowly wilt away to insignificance without attacking until you're guaranteed to wipe it out; or bomb/shell it constantly while you have it encircled. That's not often ideal use of time, but it's possible, and so sparing use of this approach (one or two turns of encirclement to soften a tough enemy unit) can make the final assault more successful - and they can't reinforce all the while, so any losses your artillery inflicts will remain lost until the unit breaks out of encirclement or is destroyed.

I like very much the fact that surrendered units become available to recruit in your army, but with very limited reinforcements available. It makes for an added goal during a mission, to capture a unit that's superior to what you have readily available. In fact, I like this system so much that I would argue that even our own country's units should not have unlimited replacements available, but rather a limited pool. Far more generous than captured equipment, but limited nonetheless. Right now, prestige (with the Liberator trait), which limits what you can get, does not seem to be much of an issue, but, admittedly, it's very early in my campaign.

I agree. I have made this suggestion a couple of times, myself. It would be a great optional game mode, and I'd also like to see the amount of available domestically-produced equipment increment each scenario, ideally in proportion to the amount actually produced during that period. I think it would a) reward efficient play (allowing you to stockpile critical materiel); b) emphasize the importance of captured equipment more (so that there's less of the "I'm building a museum" feel and more of a "I might need this weird Polish scout car later"); and c) create a realistic late-war situation where a player is still relying heavily on medium tank models instead of just flooding the field with the best available tank.

[Huygens]

Having completed just 3 scenarios and studied the 4th map, I would agree that the SCW campaign does not feel "introductory". The lack of direct control over infantry is the major issue, so far. The Republicans have markedly weaker infantry, but their tanks are mainly better than what has been made available to the Condor Legion (with the exception of the tanks bought with commendation points from the Nationalists).

In the 3rd scenario I failed to protect my heavy artillery (again, found during the 2nd scenario) so for the 4th I'll be resorting to some capture equipment. These guns can be fielded with 4 slots, compared to the -now damaged, down to 7 strength- heavy artillery which required 6 slots. So I'm left with 2 open slots and several choices as to how best utilize these: maybe upgrade a second Panzer unit to Trubia and get a third A/A unit or buy a 4th artillery piece or a 4th tank unit. Possibly more airplanes, to cover my battle groups. Possibly a third recon car? Or keep the slots open to finally try the split/merge system.

I like the fact that there are choices to be made, but breaking a siege feels daunting right now, with no control over infantry... I also like the fact that captured and requisitioned (bought) equipment, in such limited numbers, can play a decisive role; I don't think I'd have managed to capture Caceres without that heavy artillery both supressing the infantry and supporting my tank and recon car against the counterattack of the Republican tanks up north.

Also, I like the variety of the scenarios, with the amphibious/airborne assault in the first one, the attack on a capital ship in the second, the split front in the third. Hopefully, my decision to pay the premium prices for elite replacements in the first three scenarios (thus keeping my hard-earned experience) will start to pay dividends, down the line. Both my recon cars now boast one star and my tanks and artillery should join then soon. Thinking long-term, as well, two and a half stars would be an awesome advantage for the 1939 campaign, if I could keep my units alive and transfer them to Poland. Which is why I decided to tackle the Spanish Civil War campaign, in the first place.

[jeffoot77]

For me the big problem for spanish campaign is the impossibility to have the "no turn limit" option . It is not possible in the advanced options and when i played the campaign, i was obliged to rush in many missions.... so sad.

[Tassadar]

Having completed just 3 scenarios and studied the 4th map, I would agree that the SCW campaign does not feel "introductory". The lack of direct control over infantry is the major issue, so far. The Republicans have markedly weaker infantry, but their tanks are mainly better than what has been made available to the Condor Legion (with the exception of the tanks bought with commendation points from the Nationalists).

On larger maps with more units they just love to go for weakened AA or AT guns of the Republicans and entirely expose your artillery that was supporting them. I think you will soon see this little habit in action to the fullest.

In the 3rd scenario I failed to protect my heavy artillery (again, found during the 2nd scenario) so for the 4th I'll be resorting to some capture equipment. These guns can be fielded with 4 slots, compared to the -now damaged, down to 7 strength- heavy artillery which required 6 slots. So I'm left with 2 open slots and several choices as to how best utilize these: maybe upgrade a second Panzer unit to Trubia and get a third A/A unit or buy a 4th artillery piece or a 4th tank unit. Possibly more airplanes, to cover my battle groups. Possibly a third recon car? Or keep the slots open to finally try the split/merge system.

Was it due to aircraft bombardment? If so, there's an easy solution for the future. You can keep your recon plane over the artillery piece at all times. The AI seems to almost never go for recon planes with their own fighters, so for just one core slot you get a perfect unit to block any air raids. As for what to get - if you have the prestige you can be flexible and have more units than core slots allows. From my own "standard" SCW play-through I'd say during Toledo a third recon car of fourth artillery piece could make a difference, depending on your starting composition and if you wan to try and go for the bonus objective. The city can get encircled quickly, so a mobile force is probably a must, but at the same time the southern hills are a pain without enough long range suppression.

[Huygens]

Was it due to aircraft bombardment? If so, there's an easy solution for the future. You can keep your recon plane over the artillery piece at all times. The AI seems to almost never go for recon planes with their own fighters, so for just one core slot you get a perfect unit to block any air raids. As for what to get - if you have the prestige you can be flexible and have more units than core slots allows. From my own "standard" SCW play-through I'd say during Toledo a third recon car of fourth artillery piece could make a difference, depending on your starting composition and if you wan to try and go for the bonus objective. The city can get encircled quickly, so a mobile force is probably a must, but at the same time the southern hills are a pain without enough long range suppression.

Yes, that Republican bomber eventually got my artillery, the Nationalist infantry blocked my A/A unit and it was not close enough to protect the artillery unit.

I have mothballed my recon plane and replaced it with a second A/A gun and, despite that late hit on my slot-6 artillery unit, I have to say I do not regret one bit ditching the recon plane; if it had phased movement maybe it would be more of a dilemma, but as it stands, the second A/A gun proved far more useful (and until the allied AI infantry blocked me, it had been working perfectly).

For the 4th scenario, I think either a recon car or a second artillery would be the best fit for the approach I have in mind. Hopefully I can keep the governor alive, but getting all the victory hexes... hm, we'll see.

[Scrapulous]

There's an interesting design wrinkle that you should consider when choosing artillery. The heavy artillery pieces provide defensive supporting fire when adjacent friendly units are attacked by armor. The light artillery pieces provide defensive supporting fire when adjacent friendly units are attacked by infantry. But the 15cm pieces in the middle provide both types of supporting fire. I still keep some heavy artillery around because their extra range justifies them (and certain heroes make them absolutely devastating), but generally speaking most of your artillery budget should probably go toward the 15cm pieces. They have competitive stats and defensive supporting fire is so valuable. I realize that your budget currently might not allow it, but it's something to keep in mind as you evolve your core.

Also: enemy aircraft absolutely love to target heavy artillery. They will prioritize it often to a foolish extent, I suppose because they look like high-impact (expensive, vulnerable), low-risk (no retaliation) targets. So I always keep an AA gun near my artillery, ideally a hex or two behind. They do a great job of suppressing aircraft and limiting the damage, and a way to soften up the enemy aircraft before my own sweep in to punish the enemy aircraft. There are scenarios in SCW where your air force are badly outnumbered, so this kind of bait, trap, execute combination can be valuable to ensure your fighters are getting big hits in every turn and starting to even the odds in the air.

[Kerensky]

viewtopic.php?f=464&t=100028

How are they different from the base game?

While the base game serves as an excellent foundation and entry point into Panzer Corps 2 gaming, the Axis Operations are designed to push the game into new territory with new and innovative designs. The Axis Operations are everything the base game is, there's just much, much more of it. More scenarios, more scenario variety, new AI tactics and settings, new reward systems, new enemy Hero units, and more.

How difficult is this content?

While more advanced than the base campaign, the Axis Operations are still designed for any player to enjoy. Less advanced players should be able to launch into the content and play to reasonable success as they hone their skills, while expert players can test their mettle against the highest difficulty settings and hardest of bonus objectives to complete.

We've re-introduced Degrees of Victory into nearly every scenario, so new players will hopefully not be facing campaign ending defeat because they were only able to capture 9 of 10 victory hex objectives!

So the fact that he has chosen to dive right into the Spanish Civil War, and seems to be doing decently (winning scenarios, but not quite able to complete every single bonus objective)... Kinda sounds like the design philosophy is working as intended.

[Huygens]

[...]

So the fact that he has chosen to dive right into the Spanish Civil War, and seems to be doing decently (winning scenarios, but not quite able to complete every single bonus objective)... Kinda sounds like the design philosophy is working as intended.

The reason I started with the Spanish Civil War was because I thought that it would be more introductory than either the Axis DLC or the initial core campaign, mainly because of the start date. I admit that I did not research the overall difficulty before starting with SCW, I felt that the earlier date would mean "simpler" units, fewer choices that would allow me to focus on the basics and a fairly weak enemy.

Right off the bat, the need to launch an invasion both from sea and air, while avoiding the Republican fleet and then coming up against BT-5s and T-26 tanks quickly dispelled my assumption. And then the (well supported, with multiple, combined-arms units) counterattacks in all three scenarios I've completed, basically confirmed that the Spanish Civil War is quite challenging, at least for my skill level, at the 3rd difficulty setting.

So far, in the three completed scenarios, I have secured all the secondary objectives -the only goal I've failed to achieve was in the 3rd scenario, when the Republican hero showed up: I could not tie him down, he retreated north of the river and when he resurfaced it was too late for me, in a tight spot next to the Republican base in Badajoz. I'm not sure it counted as a secondary objective (i.e. did not show up in the list) but other than that, I don't think that I've missed.

The fourth scenario looks, again, complicated, in part because I do not control the Nationalist forces and hence I cannot predict their units will behave, particularly those in the besieged city (keeping the governor/artillery alive is a secondary objective).

I have to say, the challenge is excellent, especially the third scenario was tense right to the end. Now, as to whether I'd call the campaign "introductory", I don't think so, other than the early setting, it's markedly more complicated than a basic campaign -as I was used to from the early Poland scenarios, from other wargames.

[Huygens]

Well, I'm preparing for the 4th scenario, breaking the siege.

As a reward from the previous battle, I got a hero with the "sixth sense" trait, which means he makes the unit he will be attached to immune to ambush.

So, my question is, to what type of unit would you recommend that I assign him? Maybe a recon car? Then again, with its phased movement, I can't see how such a unit would be ambushed.

If I hadn't mothballed my recon plane, I'd send him there, but I still believe that this one slot is better utilized by an A/A gun, compared to a recon plane.

Maybe my best tank unit, to keep it safe, if I need to make a dash at some point?

[Tassadar]

Well, I'm preparing for the 4th scenario, breaking the siege.

As a reward from the previous battle, I got a hero with the "sixth sense" trait, which means he makes the unit he will be attached to immune to ambush.

So, my question is, to what type of unit would you recommend that I assign him? Maybe a recon car? Then again, with its phased movement, I can't see how such a unit would be ambushed.

If I hadn't mothballed my recon plane, I'd send him there, but I still believe that this one slot is better utilized by an A/A gun, compared to a recon plane.

Maybe my best tank unit, to keep it safe, if I need to make a dash at some point?

Tank or fighter. I can't imagine any other units being fast enough to get ambushed easily and bombers are sent to already explored areas almost all the time.

BTW - this is is becoming a really nice and detailed playthrough thread that would deserve it's own place in the AAR section.