Hi,
New to Fantasy General, but have played Panzer General/Corps pretty extensively.
Maybe I just need to unlearn old habits, but I'm getting the distinct impression I can't keep my core units alive in FG2.
Scouting ahead is crucial, and the sight horizon is painfully short.
Over and over again, enemy troops appear out of "nowhere". Even a defensive troop supported by "artillery" gets completely killed off when four units can reach it (two lighter infantry, one heavier infantry and one archery unit).
Since you're almost always on the offensive, creeping across the map just one square at a time to draw out the least amount of new troops isn't really an enjoyable tactic.
Any advice?
(Assume obvious solutions such as getting flying recon or a sight range artifact isn't available)
Core units survivability
Re: Core units survivability
In Panzer games, the all-important quality is that you can lead with armored units. This means the AI won't go for frontal assaults, even when that would lead to the player losing a core unit.
In other words, there's a really important quality of these games that are invisible. The enjoyment is directly correlated to only losing core units when you make mistakes. The AI prioritization is really crucial to this. In crude terms, you need to *dare* the AI to attack, and then see it buckle down, and go for something non-essential or stupid instead.
Late game PG/PC when you face heavy Soviet armor you can see this changing - unless you field five-star units, the AI will simply chance an attack. And of course, after losing just a few points (to losses or suppression) the wolves will devour the wounded unit.
I still remember picking up People's General, but getting turned off that game almost immediately. The offensive nature of most modern units meant that the AI each round simply pointed to one unit (or more) and no matter what you do, that unit gets vaporized. Hugely unsatisfying.
What I'm getting at is - I really hope the FG2 team truly understands why PG/PC are such beloved games. Play well enough and your reward is not seeing your units die.
And to the point: this is accomplished not by cheating but by calibrating the AI just right to simply not prioritize your units.
Another way of looking at it - as a human player, I am obviously capable of "pointing the finger of death" at an enemy unit (even if playing a second-rate nation). At no point in PG/PC are your units invulnerable in absolute terms, it's just that the AI "somehow" makes those kills so rarely you get a satisfactory play experience.
Would love your thoughts on this w.r.t. Fantasy General II.
In other words, there's a really important quality of these games that are invisible. The enjoyment is directly correlated to only losing core units when you make mistakes. The AI prioritization is really crucial to this. In crude terms, you need to *dare* the AI to attack, and then see it buckle down, and go for something non-essential or stupid instead.
Late game PG/PC when you face heavy Soviet armor you can see this changing - unless you field five-star units, the AI will simply chance an attack. And of course, after losing just a few points (to losses or suppression) the wolves will devour the wounded unit.
I still remember picking up People's General, but getting turned off that game almost immediately. The offensive nature of most modern units meant that the AI each round simply pointed to one unit (or more) and no matter what you do, that unit gets vaporized. Hugely unsatisfying.
What I'm getting at is - I really hope the FG2 team truly understands why PG/PC are such beloved games. Play well enough and your reward is not seeing your units die.
And to the point: this is accomplished not by cheating but by calibrating the AI just right to simply not prioritize your units.
Another way of looking at it - as a human player, I am obviously capable of "pointing the finger of death" at an enemy unit (even if playing a second-rate nation). At no point in PG/PC are your units invulnerable in absolute terms, it's just that the AI "somehow" makes those kills so rarely you get a satisfactory play experience.
Would love your thoughts on this w.r.t. Fantasy General II.
Re: Core units survivability
sorry, my english isnt the best, but i will try
Im using summons or cheap mercenaries (although this is wasteful play) for recon. In my opinion in mid/late game its easier to keep your core units alive due to better "artillery" i.e. that firearchers. But loosing a core unit doenst feel so punishing for me compared to pc2.
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OBG_primetide
- Owned by Gravity
- Posts: 364
- Joined: Fri Apr 05, 2019 8:46 am
Re: Core units survivability
Hi Molve,
there are several things to consider here:
- Scouting ahead is important, but your scouting units are often weak, while your heavy units are usually slower. This is very different from tanks in PG, where they are faster and better than infantry. So you need to change the approach a little. Here are some ways to do so:
- End your move in forest to be hidden from the enemy if you scout ahead. Use units that can retreat (like Javelin Throwers or Stag Riders)
- Use Ailsa or Stag riders to reveal large areas of Fog of War before moving into unknown territory (in other words, don't move to the edge of fog of war to reveal it, but use them to scout ahead)
- There are summons and or items that create summons (like crow's band) that you can easily send out (and that usually will not be affected by terrain)
- Spear units can break charge, so have them as first row units when moving forward
- defensive fire from slingers is unlimited when they stand on rough terrain. Great for breaking enemy waves!
- While you have to be on the offensive, remember that Barbarians are lighter and more mobile often, so make the enemy come to you and face it at rivers, forest's edge etc. to use terrain to your advantage.
- Ambush from enemy wolves etc. is dangerous. Do not run into forest areas without good backup.
As the game progresses, you will get more opportunities for new units that help in terrain exploration, such as Trackers (invisible to the enemy unless adjacent), Fliers (crows are great fro drawing enemy fire as well) and summons.
there are several things to consider here:
- Scouting ahead is important, but your scouting units are often weak, while your heavy units are usually slower. This is very different from tanks in PG, where they are faster and better than infantry. So you need to change the approach a little. Here are some ways to do so:
- End your move in forest to be hidden from the enemy if you scout ahead. Use units that can retreat (like Javelin Throwers or Stag Riders)
- Use Ailsa or Stag riders to reveal large areas of Fog of War before moving into unknown territory (in other words, don't move to the edge of fog of war to reveal it, but use them to scout ahead)
- There are summons and or items that create summons (like crow's band) that you can easily send out (and that usually will not be affected by terrain)
- Spear units can break charge, so have them as first row units when moving forward
- defensive fire from slingers is unlimited when they stand on rough terrain. Great for breaking enemy waves!
- While you have to be on the offensive, remember that Barbarians are lighter and more mobile often, so make the enemy come to you and face it at rivers, forest's edge etc. to use terrain to your advantage.
- Ambush from enemy wolves etc. is dangerous. Do not run into forest areas without good backup.
As the game progresses, you will get more opportunities for new units that help in terrain exploration, such as Trackers (invisible to the enemy unless adjacent), Fliers (crows are great fro drawing enemy fire as well) and summons.
Making Fantasy General 2