Digital League Season 9 Battles

[SnuggleBunnies]

Greetings, looks like it's just me recording this season. I've entered two sections instead of four this time, for sanity's sake. I'll update the thread as games are completed. I have *started* recording in 1080p instead of 720p, but unfortunately only a minority of this season's matches will have the higher quality. Season 10, which will hopefully include FoGII Medieval, should all be in 1080p. I expect I will continue my established role as a reliably mediocre Division A player.

Biblical

vs desertedfox
https://youtu.be/I9jE0DUM4_g
Median 836-627BC
vs
Skythian 750-551BC

vs desertedfox
https://youtu.be/sLJXI4PrgSU
Skythian 750-551BC
vs
Median 836-627BC

vs hidde
https://youtu.be/oEjtyR3yL_s
Achaemenid Persian 545-481BC
vs
Indian 500BC-319AD

vs hidde
https://youtu.be/1OpXuTp-Gxo
Indian 500BC-319AD
vs
Achaemenid Persian 545-481BC

vs harveylh
https://youtu.be/g9xXxXA-ARg
Assyrian 681-609BC
vs
Babylonian 626-539BC with Median 626-550BC allies

vs harveylh
https://youtu.be/Xge9efUrUCk
Babylonian 626-539BC with Median 626-550BC allies
vs
Assyrian 681-609BC

vs pompeytheflatulent
https://youtu.be/J6WenGHN0ps
Greek 680-461BC
vs
Lydian 687-551BC

vs pompeytheflatulent
https://youtu.be/ubcs0vf7Q1I
Lydian 687-551BC
vs
Greek 680-461BC

vs nyczar
https://youtu.be/kPYQFzOxZyY
Egyptian 664-571BC
vs
Kushite Egyptian 727-656BC

vs nyczar
https://youtu.be/HMDwyRIPg9U
Kushite Egyptian 727-656BC
vs
Egyptian 664-571BC

Early Middle Ages

vs CheAhn
https://youtu.be/U183vM-btMQ
Byzantine 963-987AD with Arab (Syria/Iraq) 890-1008AD allies
vs
Sassanid Persian 591-628AD

vs Nosy_Rat
https://youtu.be/S5EViVaPhRs
Byzantine 963-987AD with Arab (Syria/Iraq) 890-1008AD allies
vs
Spanish 900-1049AD with Andalusian 756-1049AD allies

vs Macedonczyk
https://youtu.be/sFbxR4iFt2I
Byzantine 963-987AD with Arab (Syria/Iraq) 890-1008AD allies
vs
Andalusian 756-1049AD

vs CONSTANTINIX
https://youtu.be/YI4lInBs9Gg
Byzantine 963-987AD with Arab (Syria/Iraq) 890-1008AD allies
vs
Viking (Ireland) 900-1049AD with Irish 900-1049AD allies

vs harveylh
https://youtu.be/UEVdG-xT9x8
Byzantine 963-987AD with Arab (Syria/Iraq) 890-1008AD allies
vs
Frankish 751-887AD with Croatian 625-849AD allies

vs pantherboy
https://youtu.be/K90FwnwjmdQ
Byzantine 963-987AD with Arab (Syria/Iraq) 890-1008AD allies
vs
Indian (Hindu North) 600-1049AD

vs XLegione
https://youtu.be/nSM6Etwt85Y
Byzantine 963-987AD with Arab (Syria/Iraq) 890-1008AD allies
vs
Arab (Conquest) 638-684AD

vs Sennacherib
https://youtu.be/pR8YUeW9uJY
Byzantine 963-987AD with Arab (Syria/Iraq) 890-1008AD allies
vs
Arab (Umayyad) 685-750AD with Moorish 350-698AD allies

vs Triarii
https://youtu.be/RgaMEbYAZ6Y
Byzantine 963-987AD with Arab (Syria/Iraq) 890-1008AD allies
vs
Dailami 928-1055AD with Arab Syria/Iraq 890-1008AD allies

And that's all for Season 9! So in total:

Biblical Division A
5 wins
5 losses

Biblical was 5 paired mirror matches of historical pairings. I enjoyed this format, as I think it encouraged aggression by both sides - no fear of someone camping out with the better army here. It does seem that Pete may have figured out a way to have the standard format with just the vanilla armies for Season 10. That would be nice - TableTop mod is wonderful, but the inclusion of so many hoplite armies in the past set the wrong tone for the section, I thought. Special shoutouts in this section for harveylh and pompeytheflatulent for thoroughly outplaying me in both matches.

Early Middle Ages Division A - Byzantine 963-987AD with Arab (Syria/Iraq) 890-1008AD allies
4 wins
2 draws
3 losses

In Early Middle Ages, I had mostly picked what I thought to be competitive armies, but also threw in the Byzantines, which I rolled. I don't think this Byzantine list is *bad* - but neither is it top tier. At least in League stats, it is mediocre. Top tier armies in EMA have Veteran Muslim Spearmen and hopefully also light cavalry superiority. This list performed very strongly against shooty lists (see pantherboy's brave choice of Indians). It could do well against melee infantry heavy lists, on Open maps (see the desperately close match against XLegione's Arab Conquest, or CONSTANTINIX's Vikings in Ireland - which, to my great regret, I played in Season . But it struggled against well commanded combined armed forces with a strong element of melee infantry. The Skoutatoi and Archers just can't do it against true dedicated melee foot. The list gets access to a couple of Dailami units and one Shieldwall, which isn't enough. The shooty Lancers can do okay, but are themselves vulnerable to shooting and have trouble overcoming an enemy in terrain. Special shoutouts to Nosy_Rat and Macedonczyk for just obliterating me.

This is pretty much exactly the sort of performance I predicted from myself going into the season. It's about as well as I did last time, too. I think there is just about always room to get better at the game, and I think I have improved my play. However, so has everyone else, and the player base seems to have expanded nicely, with some really talented players joining us over the course of the last year. Despite receiving some severe hammerings, I'm quite pleased to have once again remained mediocre in the top division. I'm also glad that my two draws were both bloodbaths. The Vikings in Ireland list that I used last season forced some pretty defensive play, and I at least had more options for aggression with Byzantines.

I am hoping we have High Middle Ages for Season 10, which I will certainly enter. Until then, I will enter a few player run tournaments - The West is no More, Little Wars, and Chaos - and post those matches to the channel. Good luck to all of you in Season 10 of the Field of Glory II Digital League, and thanks as always to stockwellpete for his tireless cat-herding I mean management of the tournament.

[SnuggleBunnies]

New 10/17

vs Nosy_Rat
https://youtu.be/S5EViVaPhRs
Byzantine 963-987AD with Arab (Syria/Iraq) 890-1008AD allies
vs
Spanish 900-1049AD with Andalusian 756-1049AD allies

[SnuggleBunnies]

New 10/18

vs desertedfox
https://youtu.be/sLJXI4PrgSU
Skythian 750-551BC
vs
Median 836-627BC

[kronenblatt]

Thanks, SnuggleBunnies, for your videos! Appreciated!

I'm particularly interested in your Byzantines battles, since I'm having difficulties playing both with and against them so I need to learn more about that.

Will also in due course look with fascination at the videos on your and hidde's two arrow storm battles when you fight it out between Persians and Indians. That Persian-Indian matchup is nerve wrecking, so would like to see how others were taking it on.

[SnuggleBunnies]

Thanks, SnuggleBunnies, for your videos! Appreciated!

I'm particularly interested in your Byzantines battles, since I'm having difficulties playing both with and against them so I need to learn more about that.

Will also in due course look with fascination at the videos on your and hidde's two arrow storm battles when you fight it out between Persians and Indians. That Persian-Indian matchup is nerve wrecking, so would like to see how others were taking it on.

Well, keep in mind a lot of my Byzantine videos are going to be what not to do... the later Byzantine lists have a pretty mediocre record, and I'm not improving on it. I think the only Byzantine list I find really effective is 551-578, as in addition to the 50% Bow Lancers, they get up to 4 units of Superior Offensive Spearmen... exactly the sort of troops whose lack I am feeling this season. Granted, I could have opted for the latest Byzantine list to have access to the Varangians, but 1) They're hideously expensive and 2) I wouldn't have access to so many cheap Bedouin Cavalry allies.

You'll be pleased to know that the matches against hidde are completed and recorded, and were utter bloodbaths.

New 10/20

vs Macedonczyk
https://youtu.be/sFbxR4iFt2I
Byzantine 963-987AD with Arab (Syria/Iraq) 890-1008AD allies
vs
Andalusian 756-1049AD

[kronenblatt]

Well, keep in mind a lot of my Byzantine videos are going to be what not to do...

Ha ha! I'll learn something from that then...

You'll be pleased to know that the matches against hidde are completed and recorded, and were utter bloodbaths.

Yes: I saw on the score: 62-45 and 65-25. Looking forward to watching them!

[SnuggleBunnies]

New 10/21

vs hidde
https://youtu.be/oEjtyR3yL_s
Achaemenid Persian 545-481BC
vs
Indian 500BC-319AD

[SnuggleBunnies]

New 10/22

vs hidde
https://youtu.be/1OpXuTp-Gxo
Indian 500BC-319AD
vs
Achaemenid Persian 545-481BC

[kronenblatt]

New 10/22

vs hidde
https://youtu.be/1OpXuTp-Gxo
Indian 500BC-319AD
vs
Achaemenid Persian 545-481BC

New 10/21

vs hidde
https://youtu.be/oEjtyR3yL_s
Achaemenid Persian 545-481BC
vs
Indian 500BC-319AD

Thanks for videos, Snugglebunnies, and for battles to both of you. If it's ok to comment here, it seems to me (also based on my own battles in DL and elsewhere with this matchup) that timing is everything for the Indians: whether to have Indian Archers give first shots at 4 distance after having moved or get shot at first but return fire without having moved (I'd go for the former), and how to get the Elephants to charge before becoming (too) disrupted. Maybe therefore hiding behind Indian Archers that moving on to 2 distance to Sparabara Foot, and create a gap for Elephants to charge? Don't really know myself. But that's why I was interested in seeing the videos and how you and hidde approached these problems.

[SnuggleBunnies]

Thanks for videos, Snugglebunnies, and for battles to both of you. If it's ok to comment here, it seems to me (also based on my own battles in DL and elsewhere with this matchup) that timing is everything for the Indians: whether to have Indian Archers give first shots at 4 distance after having moved or get shot at first but return fire without having moved (I'd go for the former), and how to get the Elephants to charge before becoming (too) disrupted. Maybe therefore hiding behind Indian Archers that moving on to 2 distance to Sparabara Foot, and create a gap for Elephants to charge? Don't really know myself. But that's why I was interested in seeing the videos and how you and hidde approached these problems.

Certainly, please do.

Given two players of equal skill level, I think a mirrored match of this sort will always play in favor of the Persians, because the Indians don't have the one thing that Persian armies have a hard time with: large numbers of reliable melee infantry. The problem with pushing the Indian Archers close enough to screen the Elephants for a charge is... well there's a lot of problems -

1) The Indian Archers are Unprotected, so they are likely to Disrupt before contact, leaving them vulnerable to a counter charge by the Sparabara, who get +100 Impact for Light Spear, and then both 50% Swordsmen and Protected Armor status in melee.

2) Since the Indian Archers have no melee capabilities, in addition to the malus for moving and shooting, they suffer the Massed Archers in charge range shooting malus, which is severe. So moving that close will render their fire ineffective.

3) So even if you then did get your Elephants into melee, they would be likely to suffer cohesion checks from the Archers around them fleeing, which would also expose them to flank attacks.

You *could* try to ball up all of your Indian Javelinmen to charge, but the numbers of these aren't enough for a cohesive charge all along the line, and without that they can suffer from withering concentrated fire. The one thing I think I didn't try that may have worked would have been to shove all of my chariots in the center and go for charges; even the Light Chariots did surprisingly well charging Sparabara thanks to their Superior quality, though Light Spear armed ones would have done even better.

New 10/23

vs CONSTANTINIX
https://youtu.be/YI4lInBs9Gg
Byzantine 963-987AD with Arab (Syria/Iraq) 890-1008AD allies
vs
Viking (Ireland) 900-1049AD with Irish 900-1049AD allies

[SnuggleBunnies]

New 10/25

vs harveylh
https://youtu.be/g9xXxXA-ARg
Assyrian 681-609BC
vs
Babylonian 626-539BC with Median 626-550BC allies

[kronenblatt]

The problem with pushing the Indian Archers close enough to screen the Elephants for a charge is... well there's a lot of problems -
1) The Indian Archers are Unprotected, so they are likely to Disrupt before contact, leaving them vulnerable to a counter charge by the Sparabara, who get +100 Impact for Light Spear, and then both 50% Swordsmen and Protected Armor status in melee.
2) Since the Indian Archers have no melee capabilities, in addition to the malus for moving and shooting, they suffer the Massed Archers in charge range shooting malus, which is severe. So moving that close will render their fire ineffective.
3) So even if you then did get your Elephants into melee, they would be likely to suffer cohesion checks from the Archers around them fleeing, which would also expose them to flank attacks.

All good points: thanks for thoughts, Snugglebunnies.

[SnuggleBunnies]

New 10/26

vs harveylh
https://youtu.be/Xge9efUrUCk
Babylonian 626-539BC with Median 626-550BC allies
vs
Assyrian 681-609BC

[SnuggleBunnies]

New 10/28

vs pompeytheflatulent
https://youtu.be/J6WenGHN0ps
Greek 680-461BC
vs
Lydian 687-551BC

[SnuggleBunnies]

New 10/29

vs harveylh
https://youtu.be/UEVdG-xT9x8
Byzantine 963-987AD with Arab (Syria/Iraq) 890-1008AD allies
vs
Frankish 751-887AD with Croatian 625-849AD allies

[pompeytheflatulent]

Not sure if you noticed this or not, but Byzantine thematic lancers are only slightly above average(12 POA ish), while Frankish and Muslim lancers are 'halfway to superior' above average. So the thematic lancers will work fine staring down infantry, but they have a bad habit of losing lancer vs lancer impacts in a cavalry fight(-13 POA against 'real' above average lancers, -37 POA against superior lancers). If you want to fight other cavalry, much better to just cough up the 10 extra points for superior muslim lancers.

[SnuggleBunnies]

Not sure if you noticed this or not, but Byzantine thematic lancers are only slightly above average(12 POA ish), while Frankish and Muslim lancers are 'halfway to superior' above average. So the thematic lancers will work fine staring down infantry, but they have a bad habit of losing lancer vs lancer impacts in a cavalry fight(-13 POA against 'real' above average lancers, -37 POA against superior lancers). If you want to fight other cavalry, much better to just cough up the 10 extra points for superior muslim lancers.

Yes, I am aware of the quality difference; I've just never used this Byzantine list much before and was interested in how much use I could make of the 50% Bows. In this battle, I think I would have been better off dropping some of the spendy cavalry and just spamming out more 36pt Bedouin Lancers.

Ultimately though, based on League ratings I knew this list was likely to be mediocre against most opponents; and the other three choices I had for this season were more practical -

1. Byzantine 963-987 with Arab Syria/Iraq 890-1008 allies
2. Spanish 900-1049 with Andalusian 756-1049 allies
3. Arab (Umayyad) 685-750
4. Dailami 928-1055 with Arab Syria/Iraq 890-1008 allies

Next season I will add something like Navarre with Andalusian allies, so I have a good chance of getting an army with those deliciously cheap and powerful Veteran Muslim Spearmen.

[pompeytheflatulent]

Er... My bad, I was actually referring to the Andalusian game a few days back. In that video you seemed surprised when Muslim lancers disrupted your thematic lancers on impact.

[SnuggleBunnies]

Er... My bad, I was actually referring to the Andalusian game a few days back. In that video you seemed surprised when Muslim lancers disrupted your thematic lancers on impact.

Fair enough; the odds weren't great, but they weren't terrible either, so I may have been surprised, even knowing the POA differential. I also do basically no editing of my footage, so everything I say is in there, mistakes and all. The Tagmatic and Thematic varieties look pretty similar zoomed out, so I may have simply lost track of which was which. Finally, I share the tendency of most players to, at least in the moment, notice bad luck more than good luck.

[pompeytheflatulent]

I think going on the occasional angry rant would make your videos more entertaining. Any advice for playing as the Indians against Achaemenid Persians? Other than "watch out for them arrows" and "try not to die horribly"?