I'm really enjoying playing this scenario, created by Eric, but I find it impossible to win as Allies. There are only two infantry units at Port Moresby, impossible to stop Japanese attacks once they land. You do get many strategic bombers at your disposal but they are not very effective against the convoy ships carrying troops (managed to sink four at the most while at sea). And your fleet, including two carriers, is too far away at the beginning of the scenario to be able to interfere much against the invasion force.
Also, it seems there's a bug with the allied airfield at Port Moresby - if you depart all your planes it disappears, and you need to fly back to Australia in order to refuel. The only trick is to keep at least one plane there at all times.
Has anyone succeeded in winning as Allied side?
Coral Sea - no way to win as Allies?
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KarisFraMauro
- Master Sergeant - Bf 109E
- Posts: 489
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Re: Coral Sea - no way to win as Allies?
I have. Although you're right about the airport bug, until I discovered I could keep the airfield alive by having one plane there at all times it was a problem.
A lot depends on who you're fighting of course, and I won't claim I can win against everyone. One thing the allies can do is lay mines. On land and sea. You should be able to get a force south of the port in time to help out, and if you've mined north of the island it'll make it difficult for Japan to prevent you wiping out their infantry with destroyers. It's been a while since I played though so I need my memory refreshed on a lot of things.
If you want to try a game against me, with me playing as the allies, I'm up for it. One potential problem is there's been a nasty multiplayer glitch as of late. It says you don't have the map installed even when you do. At first I thought it was only one map, but I've seen it pop up twice now and it's ominous...
Oh yeah before I forget, what about the aircraft on your carriers? It's true the fleet takes forever to arrive but the planes they carry are a different matter entirely.
A lot depends on who you're fighting of course, and I won't claim I can win against everyone. One thing the allies can do is lay mines. On land and sea. You should be able to get a force south of the port in time to help out, and if you've mined north of the island it'll make it difficult for Japan to prevent you wiping out their infantry with destroyers. It's been a while since I played though so I need my memory refreshed on a lot of things.
If you want to try a game against me, with me playing as the allies, I'm up for it. One potential problem is there's been a nasty multiplayer glitch as of late. It says you don't have the map installed even when you do. At first I thought it was only one map, but I've seen it pop up twice now and it's ominous...
Oh yeah before I forget, what about the aircraft on your carriers? It's true the fleet takes forever to arrive but the planes they carry are a different matter entirely.
Re: Coral Sea - no way to win as Allies?
Is this the 1v1 Coral Sea 1942 v7.2 ?
Re: Coral Sea - no way to win as Allies?
6.2 is what's currently in the crate....
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KarisFraMauro
- Master Sergeant - Bf 109E
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Re: Coral Sea - no way to win as Allies?
I assume it's the 1 versus 1, since I haven't found any issues with the 2 versus 2. Starting to remember it more now. I'd always target Japanese supply ships so their ground troops starve. Although a good counter to that would be to hold back one ground unit until the full Japanese fleet arrives to wipe out everything, then seize victory in the very last few turns.
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stenicplus
- Corporal - 5 cm Pak 38
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Re: Coral Sea - no way to win as Allies?
So, in 2v2 the allies won and won well.
The attack on the left land mass by the Japanese went well, but they proceeded south and crossed the mountain range. I sat at the far end with 2 Hvy Infantry and used strategic bombers to destroy the Japanese. Mean time I trashed their support ships then advanced and took back the primary objective. The British fleet hounded the Japanese fleet there and and left them with just carriers.
Meantime, my US ally worked out that if the Western Japanese fleet had no landing force left it could not get the objecvtive, so he located the landing force with his air force and annihilated it at the expense of his ships. Extreme but it worked.
The 2 Japanese players felt the 2v2 scenario was weighted against them. Clearly tactics played a part here but this was their feedback:
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1. map - excellent
2. victory conditions and general arrangement of forces - excellent
3. allied fleets - too numerous, especially british.
4. allied airforce far too powerful. Needs restricting in numbers and availablity in terms of fuel. At the moment they can attack ships and land forces repeatedly and for many game-turns. Torpedo bombers work much better and things should be geared around that. There is no point in worrying about your carriers as almost no planes will ever return to land and re-arm. CAP is far too powerful.
5. Japanese ship based torpedoes seem rather feeble. Numerous DD attacks on large ships produced zero or 1 hit only, with no real effect on the target regardless of attack aspect Torpedo damage should be range-based and ideally also factor in target aspect
6. The ability of fleets to destroy large armies by shore bombardment is excessive. Without forward artillery observers and radio comms, ships cannot accurately target land forces unless very close to the beach
Many of these points may require code changes which are difficult or not cost effective, so we make some simple suggestions below :
1. simple fixes suggested :
1. Japanese resource points per turn are feeble. Way more should be provided, allowing the purchase of new waves of aircraft with deployment zones near the carriers or fixed points at sea
2. Split US air power in
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My response was:
So to push back, so we do not inadvertently make it too easy for the Japanese, I’d counter with the following:
British RP were also feeble and spread across 3 nations, so at most I could repair 1 aircraft by about 3 health per turn, by the end I had 1 Torpedo bomber on 10 health, the rest 6 or less. In the entire game I healed one ship only and to do that sacrificed air healing.
You annihilated the US fleet, reducing it by 20% would make it ineffective.
The British fleet whilst still there was badly damaged so again reducing it by so much would not necessarily work,.
Do both of those and increase the turns to 50 would mean actually your fleet would reach mine, and trust me, you’d have sunk the entire lot.
That said, we have the technology to try it
So my counter is Japanese tactics, and of course hindsight is wonderful so this bit is easy:
Rodger’s landing was defeated mainly because they were sent through the mountains and lost supply. Constant harassment by heavy bombers shredded them and I held out end of the coast road and mountain pass with a single heavy weapon unit on each road. The heavy bombers won it there with support of destroyers taking down your supply ships.
Regarding torpedoes, our were pretty naff too but were at least doing 1 damage, more so than British gunnery that struggled to damage any Japanese Battleships, those I hit with Torpedo planes. I suspect that’s a game software thing rather than the scenario nerfing them but I’ll look see.
Next bit is a can full of recrimination worms but is there a case to say the Japanese strategy was suspect in hindsight? I get your plan but once Dave had spotted the 2nd landing fleet he was able to trash it and effectively nullified that objective for you. Granted he lost a fleet but objective achieved. With Rodger’s invasion force could he have had more support from Gordon to handle the British fleet whilst his invasion went ahead. After all, the invasion went smoothly and the objective taken in a few turns as I had nothing to stop it, Rodger’s issue was maintaining it.
That said, I can do all those changes and we can try again with Dave and I as the Japanese and you and Rodger as the depleted Allies, it would test both the changes and a revised strategy... We could even use the same strategy actually and see how it goes
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Not sure if it all help?
The attack on the left land mass by the Japanese went well, but they proceeded south and crossed the mountain range. I sat at the far end with 2 Hvy Infantry and used strategic bombers to destroy the Japanese. Mean time I trashed their support ships then advanced and took back the primary objective. The British fleet hounded the Japanese fleet there and and left them with just carriers.
Meantime, my US ally worked out that if the Western Japanese fleet had no landing force left it could not get the objecvtive, so he located the landing force with his air force and annihilated it at the expense of his ships. Extreme but it worked.
The 2 Japanese players felt the 2v2 scenario was weighted against them. Clearly tactics played a part here but this was their feedback:
-----------------------------
1. map - excellent
2. victory conditions and general arrangement of forces - excellent
3. allied fleets - too numerous, especially british.
4. allied airforce far too powerful. Needs restricting in numbers and availablity in terms of fuel. At the moment they can attack ships and land forces repeatedly and for many game-turns. Torpedo bombers work much better and things should be geared around that. There is no point in worrying about your carriers as almost no planes will ever return to land and re-arm. CAP is far too powerful.
5. Japanese ship based torpedoes seem rather feeble. Numerous DD attacks on large ships produced zero or 1 hit only, with no real effect on the target regardless of attack aspect Torpedo damage should be range-based and ideally also factor in target aspect
6. The ability of fleets to destroy large armies by shore bombardment is excessive. Without forward artillery observers and radio comms, ships cannot accurately target land forces unless very close to the beach
Many of these points may require code changes which are difficult or not cost effective, so we make some simple suggestions below :
1. simple fixes suggested :
1. Japanese resource points per turn are feeble. Way more should be provided, allowing the purchase of new waves of aircraft with deployment zones near the carriers or fixed points at sea
2. Split US air power in
----------------------
My response was:
So to push back, so we do not inadvertently make it too easy for the Japanese, I’d counter with the following:
British RP were also feeble and spread across 3 nations, so at most I could repair 1 aircraft by about 3 health per turn, by the end I had 1 Torpedo bomber on 10 health, the rest 6 or less. In the entire game I healed one ship only and to do that sacrificed air healing.
You annihilated the US fleet, reducing it by 20% would make it ineffective.
The British fleet whilst still there was badly damaged so again reducing it by so much would not necessarily work,.
Do both of those and increase the turns to 50 would mean actually your fleet would reach mine, and trust me, you’d have sunk the entire lot.
That said, we have the technology to try it
So my counter is Japanese tactics, and of course hindsight is wonderful so this bit is easy:
Rodger’s landing was defeated mainly because they were sent through the mountains and lost supply. Constant harassment by heavy bombers shredded them and I held out end of the coast road and mountain pass with a single heavy weapon unit on each road. The heavy bombers won it there with support of destroyers taking down your supply ships.
Regarding torpedoes, our were pretty naff too but were at least doing 1 damage, more so than British gunnery that struggled to damage any Japanese Battleships, those I hit with Torpedo planes. I suspect that’s a game software thing rather than the scenario nerfing them but I’ll look see.
Next bit is a can full of recrimination worms but is there a case to say the Japanese strategy was suspect in hindsight? I get your plan but once Dave had spotted the 2nd landing fleet he was able to trash it and effectively nullified that objective for you. Granted he lost a fleet but objective achieved. With Rodger’s invasion force could he have had more support from Gordon to handle the British fleet whilst his invasion went ahead. After all, the invasion went smoothly and the objective taken in a few turns as I had nothing to stop it, Rodger’s issue was maintaining it.
That said, I can do all those changes and we can try again with Dave and I as the Japanese and you and Rodger as the depleted Allies, it would test both the changes and a revised strategy... We could even use the same strategy actually and see how it goes
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Not sure if it all help?
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KarisFraMauro
- Master Sergeant - Bf 109E
- Posts: 489
- Joined: Sat Jun 08, 2019 10:49 pm
Re: Coral Sea - no way to win as Allies?
I tried playing the 2 vs 2 map but one of the players seemed to quit just when things were getting interesting so I can't draw firm conclusions. Surprising to hear the Japanese fleet is outgunned, seemed more than substantial to me! I was playing as the allies by the way. The Japanese air force did seem a little on the small side, but in any kind of straight up fight their fighters had a small edge so felt reasonable overall. It's definitely true taking the west land mass leaves ground troops vulnerable to supply shortages, if Japan doesn't properly protect their supply ships they're asking for trouble.
I'd be happy to play the 2 vs 2 again, as either side, but right now every dang map is glitched for me. Red straight through. Wish I knew how to fix it, sorry to keep complaining...
I'd be happy to play the 2 vs 2 again, as either side, but right now every dang map is glitched for me. Red straight through. Wish I knew how to fix it, sorry to keep complaining...
Re: Coral Sea - no way to win as Allies?
That is a 1v1 scenario so I'll update my 7.2 version and send you a link when finished.
(I found no issues with the Allied arifelds btw. Strange since 2 players reported it. But if relates to a 2v2 version it could simply be that onle 1 faction may have air units in one single hangar).
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KarisFraMauro
- Master Sergeant - Bf 109E
- Posts: 489
- Joined: Sat Jun 08, 2019 10:49 pm
Re: Coral Sea - no way to win as Allies?
Even though I still can't join games (grr) others can join mine, and I started the 1 vs 1 version 7.2. It's... Completely different! Which is great! 
I suppose I could test to see if the disappearing airfield glitch is still present, but that can probably wait until I'm confident it won't affect the outcome of the game. Hopefully winning, heh.
From what I remember it was only one airfield that would disappear if there were no airplanes based there. The one by the objective. I wonder if this sort of thing has happened on any other maps? As for as I know it's unique.
I suppose I could test to see if the disappearing airfield glitch is still present, but that can probably wait until I'm confident it won't affect the outcome of the game. Hopefully winning, heh.From what I remember it was only one airfield that would disappear if there were no airplanes based there. The one by the objective. I wonder if this sort of thing has happened on any other maps? As for as I know it's unique.
Re: Coral Sea - no way to win as Allies?
In the meantime I discovered that there's an updated version which I yet have to try, I am playing 6.2. I admit that I completely missed to use the sea mining option. I can imagine that it can be a game changer. As for the planes from Yorktown and Lexington - yes, I am using them, but have to fly them westward to refuel at one of the airports before going north and attacking the Japanese destroyers and light cruisers from the invasion fleet.KarisFraMauro wrote: ↑Tue Oct 27, 2020 12:00 pm I have. Although you're right about the airport bug, until I discovered I could keep the airfield alive by having one plane there at all times it was a problem.
A lot depends on who you're fighting of course, and I won't claim I can win against everyone. One thing the allies can do is lay mines. On land and sea. You should be able to get a force south of the port in time to help out, and if you've mined north of the island it'll make it difficult for Japan to prevent you wiping out their infantry with destroyers. It's been a while since I played though so I need my memory refreshed on a lot of things.
If you want to try a game against me, with me playing as the allies, I'm up for it. One potential problem is there's been a nasty multiplayer glitch as of late. It says you don't have the map installed even when you do. At first I thought it was only one map, but I've seen it pop up twice now and it's ominous...
Oh yeah before I forget, what about the aircraft on your carriers? It's true the fleet takes forever to arrive but the planes they carry are a different matter entirely.
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KarisFraMauro
- Master Sergeant - Bf 109E
- Posts: 489
- Joined: Sat Jun 08, 2019 10:49 pm
Re: Coral Sea - no way to win as Allies?
Hmm, from what I remember they were able to get in a couple strikes before needing to refuel... It was definitely a close thing though. I always made sure to launch after moving the carriers, and I think they attacked destroyers rather than transports which were farther away. Yeah I had to play a couple times before I appreciated how useful mines were, especially at sea.
This new version I'm playing is massively different from 6.2. I was surprised, normally there's not so much variation in versions. For one thing you have total control (well aside from subs) of the placement of initial warships.
This new version I'm playing is massively different from 6.2. I was surprised, normally there's not so much variation in versions. For one thing you have total control (well aside from subs) of the placement of initial warships.
Re: Coral Sea - no way to win as Allies?
I'm looking forward to try the new version. I have an open invitation at the moment for 7.3, so you're welcome to join if you like.KarisFraMauro wrote: ↑Thu Oct 29, 2020 3:54 am Hmm, from what I remember they were able to get in a couple strikes before needing to refuel... It was definitely a close thing though. I always made sure to launch after moving the carriers, and I think they attacked destroyers rather than transports which were farther away. Yeah I had to play a couple times before I appreciated how useful mines were, especially at sea.
This new version I'm playing is massively different from 6.2. I was surprised, normally there's not so much variation in versions. For one thing you have total control (well aside from subs) of the placement of initial warships.
Re: Coral Sea - no way to win as Allies?
I grabbed the scenario after struggling with the 'scenario-not-in-your-folder-syndrome'.
Always happy to test my creations
Always happy to test my creations
Re: Coral Sea - no way to win as Allies?
Awesome! I like the free deployment option!
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KarisFraMauro
- Master Sergeant - Bf 109E
- Posts: 489
- Joined: Sat Jun 08, 2019 10:49 pm
Re: Coral Sea - no way to win as Allies?
I think I have one game going as version 7.2 (almost said version 72 by accident, heh!) and three as version 7.3 so my hands are pretty full for now. But I'm sure I'll triumph in all games in no time at all and be ready for more 
Erik was there anything specific you did to overcome the not in folder issue? Or did just eventually pass of its own accord? I wonder if it's related to how many scenarios I have in my folder, which are a lot, if probably less than yours.
Erik was there anything specific you did to overcome the not in folder issue? Or did just eventually pass of its own accord? I wonder if it's related to how many scenarios I have in my folder, which are a lot, if probably less than yours.
Re: Coral Sea - no way to win as Allies?
I copied my custom scenario to the official Scenarios folder (not the MyGames).