Spanish Civil War

[duncan]

I didn't like HoI at all, don't know why (strange, being a EU2 fanboy), but I loved playing Spanish civil War in that game. Can this war be included some way or other in the game? Maybe a mini-scenario? Maybe as a prelude for the BIG fight (imagine that you can help republican army win with USSR and you can fight back the germans in TWO fronts, instead of one). I can help with some starting background info (my granpa fought in that war) and maybe Miki would help, he's a History ace, from what I've read...it would be a strong selling point in Spain, also.

[IainMcNeil]

The scale of the map probably wouldn't work for just spain but we can certainly think abut it. I dont know much aboutit. Were there front lines & large scale battles like WWII or was it more skirmish led?

[malthaussen]

Yes, Iain, there were front lines and large scale battles in the Spanish Civil War. The best single, simple introduction to this very important conflict would be Antony Beevor's The Spanish Civil War. If you're interested in 20th century history at all, you owe it to yourself to learn more about this war.

Having said that, it would be a terrible conflict to reproduce at this level. It would be great at the operational level, where the impact of weapons and organization could really be modelled, and a whole lot of politcal shenanigans could be reproduced and included. But it doesn't translate to the corps level at all, IMO.

-- Mal

[tora_tora_tora]

corps level operation fight without too much production rules, might be good.

And if Franco wins, there could be blau division from Spain in Eastern Front in later scenario.

[duncan]

There were big battles like in WWII and guerrilla warfare too. My grandfather fought in the north against national side and he told me that it was mostly skirmish-based war, not involving great amounts of men/machines, they were poorly equiped too (except Luftwaffe ). But there were also battles involving thousands of soldiers, mostly in Madrid area and the republican failed counterattack in Ebro River (more about these in Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_civil_war).

Anyway, I see Malthaussen's point and I agree with it, maybe it's a little bit complicated to translate the whole conflict in one way only...but the grand-strategy minded HoI covered that period nicely, IMHO, using corps and strategy (and not tactics): Paul Preston (an evertonian like me) sees the Civil War as a prelude for the WWII and thinks it just another episode from the European Civil War (see Wikipedia)

[Redpossum]

corps level operation fight without too much production rules, might be good.

And if Franco wins, there could be blau division from Spain in Eastern Front in later scenario.

LOL, but Franco did win. And he had promised Hitler Spanish help in exchange for German aid in defeating the communists.

But Franco was basically a decent guy, witness the fact that he did raise King Juan Carlos well, and he did eventually restore Spain to a democratic form of government. Well, constitutional monarchy, same thing in practical terms.

Anyhow, once the commies were all fled or dead, Franco told Hitler to "foxtrot oscar", and kept Spain neutral. In the long run, this turned out to be a very, very, very good decision.

[honvedseg]

The greatest impact that the Spanish Civil War had on the rest of Europe at the time was that it served as a "testing ground" for all of the new gadgets and combat doctrines of the major powers. It especially gave Germany a chance to try out "blitzkreig" and improve it before taking it out on the road. The English, who were relatively advanced in their combat methods until then, never got that trial run, and suffered for it in France.

[tora_tora_tora]

Do map address every cities' name?

The few cities I know in Spain is Madrid, Barcerona, Granada.
And if possible, I want to know where the Astrahan in grand campaign.
If every city has its name, it is really interesting and add some aspects into game-playing.