Tournament Round I Army Comparison Sheet

[sIg3b]

I made this for myself, but some others might like it, too.
(Right-click and open in new tab for better visibility.)

Army Options.jpg (525.54 KiB) Viewed 2645 times

[SimonLancaster]

Good luck in the tournament.

[sIg3b]

Good luck in the tournament.

I will need it.

Thanks, and same to you.

[sIg3b]

Comparing the lists above, the Syracusans appear pretty much to be on an equal footing.

I seem to remember that when the game came out they were inferior to Carthage. Is my memory tricking me or have they been improved?

[SimonLancaster]

I am not in this tournament. I mainly play in the Digital League. Carthage is the better list - the Veteran African Spearmen will do a lot of damage. Carthage also has more cavalry plus chariots that it can field. Someone else can talk about the Heavy Chariots.. they might be good.

Richard started doing some analysis on the lists for this tournament:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCuf5iBqz9I

[sIg3b]

I am not in this tournament. I mainly play in the Digital League. Carthage is the better list - the Veteran African Spearmen will do a lot of damage. Carthage also has more cavalry plus chariots that it can field. Someone else can talk about the Heavy Chariots.. they might be good.

Richard started doing some analysis on the lists for this tournament:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCuf5iBqz9I

Unfortunately, the man is completely wrong. He didn´t even get his numbers right. 3:40 min into the video he says the Carthaginians have 5 Cavalry (including Chariots); however, they have 8!!!

He is not starting from 1200 pts, for some unknown reason.

That´s why I made the factsheet above. I believe the most important thing in planning is to get your numbers right!

Get-Your-Numbers-Right.jpg (48.08 KiB) Viewed 2562 times

[sIg3b]

His Syracusan army in the video is over 200pts larger than his Carthaginian army. I would just love to play his Syracusans against his Carthaginians in the tournament!

[Karvon]

Having played half-a-dozen practice games, abet vs the AI, these are my initial observations.

1. The Syracusians have a significant advantage in heavy infantry, a max of 20 vs Carth. max of 11.
2. The Syracusian veteran hopolites are almost as good as the veteran African spears, especially in light of point 1.
3. The Syracusians have a slight edge in light foot 8 vs 7 max, with a 2-1 superiority in long range fire 4 vs 2.
4. Both armies have the same quantity and quality of cavalry.
5. The Syracusians have 2 light horse which can greatly augment both their light foot and their cavalry, plus useful in pursuit of key routers.
6. The Carth heavy chariots have hefty punch, but are slow and not particularly useful in dealing with massed spears head on. They can be chewed up by skirmishers if overly exposed.
7. Both armies have equal access to warbands, which can give some additional punch, probably a bit more useful with the Carth, given their lack of heavy infantry.
8. The Carth have a significant advantage in medium infantry, a max of 13 vs a Syracusian max of 6. Both sides have equal numbers of Spanish, Italian and irregular, but the Carth can also add up to 7 Phoeni foot, which are cheap but very effective.
9. Both sides can field heavy artillery, the Syracusians 2 vs Carth 1. This is more of gimmick weapon in most cases, but can be useful on some occasions.

Overall, I think the Syracusians will be favored if the field is relatively uncluttered by difficult terrain. If the field has significant amounts of such terrain, then the Carthaginians should have the upper hand.

[sIg3b]

Overall, not having played a single practice game yet, I´d say the numbers support your analysis.

On a typical mediterranean agricultural map, with just a few spots of difficult and rough, the Syracusans, surprisingly, should be better.

[Karvon]

Even with med agri maps, you can get some pretty significant chunks of rough terrain, so the Carth can't be counted out so quickly IMHO.

[sIg3b]

It is easier to avoid the difficult terrain, though, than to avoid the open. Particularly if you have the shooting advantage.

[SimonLancaster]

Yes, I have already mentioned to Richard that he didn’t use 1200 points for his army. But, his observations about the units are still valid and useful.

[SimonLancaster]

Having played half-a-dozen practice games, abet vs the AI, these are my initial observations.

1. The Syracusians have a significant advantage in heavy infantry, a max of 20 vs Carth. max of 11.
2. The Syracusian veteran hopolites are almost as good as the veteran African spears, especially in light of point 1.
3. The Syracusians have a slight edge in light foot 8 vs 7 max, with a 2-1 superiority in long range fire 4 vs 2.
4. Both armies have the same quantity and quality of cavalry.
5. The Syracusians have 2 light horse which can greatly augment both their light foot and their cavalry, plus useful in pursuit of key routers.
6. The Carth heavy chariots have hefty punch, but are slow and not particularly useful in dealing with massed spears head on. They can be chewed up by skirmishers if overly exposed.
7. Both armies have equal access to warbands, which can give some additional punch, probably a bit more useful with the Carth, given their lack of heavy infantry.
8. The Carth have a significant advantage in medium infantry, a max of 13 vs a Syracusian max of 6. Both sides have equal numbers of Spanish, Italian and irregular, but the Carth can also add up to 7 Phoeni foot, which are cheap but very effective.
9. Both sides can field heavy artillery, the Syracusians 2 vs Carth 1. This is more of gimmick weapon in most cases, but can be useful on some occasions.

Overall, I think the Syracusians will be favored if the field is relatively uncluttered by difficult terrain. If the field has significant amounts of such terrain, then the Carthaginians should have the upper hand.

Talking about getting the numbers right.. isn’t it 13 v 22 heavy infantry going by sIg3b’s information? No one seems to have the right facts!

[Karvon]

I didn't count war bands as heavy infantry; I listed them separately as they have different characteristics.

[sIg3b]

Yes, I have already mentioned to Richard that he didn’t use 1200 points for his army. But, his observations about the units are still valid and useful.

I dunno. He loves African Spearmen, but seems lukewarm about Mercenary Hoplites. Are they not exactly the same?

[Karvon]

They are; maybe he was referring to the veteran Africans?

[sIg3b]

They are; maybe he was referring to the veteran Africans?

No, he was very enthusiastic about the regulars.

[Karvon]

I'm not sure what the difference could be between them besides the name. As I recall, they cost the same points, have the same weapon, the same armor, the same morale grade.

[sIg3b]

"Even the Carthaginians who composed the Sacred Band, twenty-five hundred in number and drawn from the ranks of those citizens who were distinguished for valour and reputation as well as for wealth, were all cut down after a gallant struggle".
-Diodoros Siculus

This is how it ended irl. I suppose I was right about the Syracusans being a bit better.

Below is an anti-Carthaginian propaganda poster, probably painted by Cato.

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