Red Storm Release - Eastern Front Tournament

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unitlost
Lance Corporal - Panzer IA
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Re: Red Storm Release - Eastern Front Tournament

Post by unitlost »

I did not see anything in the rules which said otherwise, so I disbanded some of my units when I knew they would be lost to me, thus denying my opponent some VPs. Maybe, it should be prohibited? Or does my opponent still get the VPs? Or have I done something illegal and thus need to forfeit my game? Please advise.
Shards
Slitherine
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Re: Red Storm Release - Eastern Front Tournament

Post by Shards »

Hi,

There's nothing in the rules nor game to stop that behaviour.

I'd like to find a way to restrict it properly at some point, but it's a function of the game and so a perfectly allowable behaviour.

Thanks for the honesty to enquire!
Shards
Slitherine
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Re: Red Storm Release - Eastern Front Tournament

Post by Shards »

Fwiw, as I don't lose any points from losing my units (rather, my opponent gains them), I've started disbanding less often in order to make my opponent spend attacks killing them off.

Very much depends on whether I've got need of those CP elsewhere though!
Boilermakergamer
Private First Class - Wehrmacht Inf
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Re: Red Storm Release - Eastern Front Tournament

Post by Boilermakergamer »

Just wanted to say thank you for the tournament. Aside from the first two matches showing me how woefully inadequate I am at playing against actual humans, it has been a great experience. Great maps that give a lot of options, and fun opponents. Can't wait for the next one.
Dwightd
Senior Corporal - Ju 87G
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Re: Red Storm Release - Eastern Front Tournament

Post by Dwightd »

So I was looking at the scoring table, and the current round I am in does not seem to be accurate. The numbers are correct, but they are switched. I made sure and double checked this last turn. Before I closed the scenarios I looked at the summary screen. In the "Your Total VP" line I have 46 and 56. When I look at the small table for this round, the 46 and 56 show up in my opponents line. His VP values show up in my line of the table.

Maybe his propaganda group is working harder than mine :wink:

Any insight is appreciated

Edit:
Never mind, I just read the other post about this :oops:
Last edited by Dwightd on Sat Oct 17, 2020 5:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
conboy
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Re: Red Storm Release - Eastern Front Tournament

Post by conboy »

Unitlost --
I disbanded some of my units when I knew they would be lost to me
I did too, in my first match out of rage and frustration at lynxcom who was delivering upon me an unrequested, entirely humiliating ass-whipping.

So when I thought about it -- we are not playing for scenario wins, we are playing for overall points, so it does not help you one whit to disappear a unit that is going to be lost to the opponent. It unfairly denies the opponent rightly-earned points and provides you no benefit, except to put another ugly wart on your soul.

But I think it is fair to remove a unit if it is militarily necessary to re-assemble for a counterattack or last stand, no matter what that unit's status is vis-a-vis the enemy. I am sure that many commanders in wartime faced the dilemma of abandoning units to free resources to save the battle.

Fair is fair, the rules is the rules. I don't think we should penalize players for removing units, but I think we should all count on our opponents' sense of fair play (although it is new-found in my case...) Apologies to lynxcom, and congratulations on a very well-played match - thanks for the lesson.

conboy
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Slitherine
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Re: Red Storm Release - Eastern Front Tournament

Post by Shards »

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LynxCom
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Re: Red Storm Release - Eastern Front Tournament

Post by LynxCom »

Conboy, no need to apologies.


About disbanding.
Did/do I use an option to disband a "shattered" unit?
Yes.

Did/do my opponents disband units?
Yes.

Am I ok with it?
No, not really. Whoever (I or my opponets) uses it, if feels quite gamey for me.

Sometimes It is hard to completely destroy a whole unit because of retreat mechanics (I am fine with retreat mechanics). It could be frustrating if enemy unit survives with one or two strength points and is disbanded in next turn. It is more frustrating when you have to deal with new fresh full-strength unit next turn. It is like real german east front experience - "Kamaraden, we totally beat them... oh, never mind, here comes another."

My suggestion is one tournament could be played with non-core units or some non-core units or a scenario with low income.
Shards
Slitherine
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Re: Red Storm Release - Eastern Front Tournament

Post by Shards »

In the medium term, is like to add a "no disband" option to the editor so a designer can suppress the functionality of they wish.

But it's no sort of priority for now.

If I was to redesign from scratch, I'd allow it, but put the CP in "jail" for a turn, so it's a much harder decision to make as you won't be able to redeploy immediately.
Shards
Slitherine
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Re: Red Storm Release - Eastern Front Tournament

Post by Shards »

My problem with having too many non core or too low an income is that we'd potentially see a lot of abandonments as players could, and will, lose the initial engagement and give up.

At least with the current mechanics there's an ability to try and come back
LynxCom
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Re: Red Storm Release - Eastern Front Tournament

Post by LynxCom »

What about points for an opponent if a player disbands a unit? Same principle like points for destroying. Is it possible?
Shards
Slitherine
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Re: Red Storm Release - Eastern Front Tournament

Post by Shards »

LynxCom wrote: Mon Oct 19, 2020 7:09 am What about points for an opponent if a player disbands a unit? Same principle like points for destroying. Is it possible?
Not at the moment, no, you can't detect a disband event nor know what unit was disbanded via the editor.
Shards
Slitherine
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Re: Red Storm Release - Eastern Front Tournament

Post by Shards »

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rth
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Re: Red Storm Release - Eastern Front Tournament

Post by rth »

Hallo
sehr gutes Spiel und Turnier, macht mir großen Spaß und ist ein interessanter Zeitvertreib. .... meinen Dank an die Entwickler und Veranstalter

Wäre es vielleicht möglich, das Turnier auf 4 oder 5 Runden zu verlängern ?

Im letzten Turnier bin ich als Neuling sehr weit vorne gelandet, aber nur weil ich das Pech hatte, dankbare Gegner zu bekommen (persönliche Einschätzung).
In diesem Turnier hatte ich starke Gegner, vor allem in der zweiten Runde. Eine Menge gelernt, zum Beispiel wie wichtig Einheiten-Effizienz sein kann , was ich auch gut in der 3. Runde einsetzen konnte.

Ich weiß vom Schach-Turnier Sport das das Schweißer System ab mindestens 5 Runden, einen gerechten stärksten Sieger ermittelt.
Dann würde eine glückliche Auslosung von Gegnern keine große Rolle mehr spielen, wie in meinem ersten Turnier.

Danke macht weiter so
Gruß Ralf
Shards
Slitherine
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Re: Red Storm Release - Eastern Front Tournament

Post by Shards »

Hi!

Glad you're enjoying it.

3 Rounds seems to be the sweet spot for general tournaments like this. It generally keeps completable for most players whereas 5 rounds might lose quite a lot of players to attrition.

If we do the most hardcore tournament that's being discussed, I can see that being extended to be more rounds (as long as we have the maps) as I think it would feature more players who love those sort of maps more.
conboy
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Re: Red Storm Release - Eastern Front Tournament

Post by conboy »

I vote to wait on the tournament format getting longer. I'd rather have frequent 3-game tourneys than tourneys with more scenarios. These are like warmups (that give me a bloody nose, but still...)
Maybe we could do a NASCAR-style series later. Chuck the Swiss-style scoring and go with point awards for placing 15th or higher or something similar. But that might make some players drop out after a while if they don't place in the first few scenarios. Never mind, in NASCAR, all competitors are on the field at once.

I like three-game tourneys. So far anyway.

conboy
Dwightd
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Re: Red Storm Release - Eastern Front Tournament

Post by Dwightd »

conboy wrote: Tue Oct 20, 2020 8:05 pm
I like three-game tourneys. So far anyway.

conboy
Ditto here
Shards
Slitherine
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Re: Red Storm Release - Eastern Front Tournament

Post by Shards »

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