Converting DBM Sicilians to FOG Italo-Norman & Late Sici

[vichussar]

I have a Sicilian army (DBM Bk 4) that I want to re configure in preperation for "Oath of Fealty" arriving. Could some-one advise me on what the max number of bases I need to provide BG's of the various troops; please add anything else I need including what allies allowed if any.

It currently contains the following elements:-

4 Generals based as Kn(F/O/S) + 1 Dble based Kn(I) Gen (based 2 & 4)

16 Feuadal knights - irr Kn(F/O)

8 Communal/Merc knights - reg Kn(F/O)

10 Communal spearmen - reg Sp(I)

6 Communal X-bow - reg Bw(I)

4 dble bases front spear/rear x-bow - reg Bw(X)

2 Saracen noble cavavlry - irr/reg Cv(O)

24 Saracen archers - 10 x Ps(O) LF, 10 x irr Bw(I), 4 x reg Bw (I); (have extra figs for 10 x irr Bw(I), 6 x reg Bw (I))

6 Saracen axemen - reg Ax(S)

4 Merc x-bow - reg Bw(O)

7 Berbers with javalin - irr LH(O)

8 Saracen horse archers - reg LH(F)

16 Arriere-ban - irr Hd(O); (10 European & 6 Saracen)

3 dble based German mercenary cavalry - reg Kn (I)

I need to add the following as per the DBM list

0-6 Saracen javalinmen - irr Ax(O); as alternative to axemen (using minifigs/donington to match??)

12-36 Almughavars- irr/reg Ax(S); plan to use Eureka min's now they're out.

0-16 Griffons aka Sicilian Greeks - irr Ax(O); fig suggestions needed

0-12 Aragonese x-bow - irr Ps(O); fig suggestions needed

0-6 Aragonese light horse - irr LH(O); fig suggestions needed

[DaiSho]

You realise of course that you would be able to do very early Norman Sicilians from 'Wolves from the Sea'?

Ian

[vichussar]

You realise of course that you would be able to do very early Norman Sicilians from 'Wolves from the Sea'?

Ian

True, but the figures used and the paint job is really post 1100's

I have seen "Wolves" (always wanted a Rus army) and will be getting my copy in due course but priority is "Oath" then "Dragons" for my son's Q'in Chinese.

John Mc

[lawrenceg]

I haven't seen Oath of Fealty, but in general the base sizes and figures per base don't change when you go from DBM to FOG. Number of bases often changes a bit, but you seem to have enough to do an army much larger than is commonly used in FOG (or DBM for that matter) already.

Exceptions for this list will probably be:

Double based Kn will become single based knights;
Double based Bw X BwO will become single based HF defensive spear, single based MF crossbow in a BG with half its bases of each type.

I have found that where you get max of 2 or 3 bases in DBM, the FOG minimum BG size becomes 4, so you might need a couple more Saracen nobles.

Classification of Saracen horse archers may change from LH as there has been some discussion of this on certain internet groups (not specifically linked to FOG).

I would expect you to be able to field a FOG army with no changes to your bases, then when you get the book you can see what changes are needed to allow all the options.

[Ghaznavid]

Lawrence summed it up pretty well. Sicilian LH will be avaible as Light Spear or Bow armed. 'Axemen' might be able to serve as 'saracen close fighters' (which can be MF or HF).
I'm wondering a bit about the Norman/Griffons and Aragonese/Almughavar thingy you seem to be hinting at though (sorry if I get you wrong). You are aware that these two options are pretty far apart timewise, right? Knights that work for one option will be way off for the other. Also you wont get any muslims after Benevento anymore.

[vichussar]

I haven't seen Oath of Fealty, but in general the base sizes and figures per base don't change when you go from DBM to FOG. Number of bases often changes a bit, but you seem to have enough to do an army much larger than is commonly used in FOG (or DBM for that matter) already.

Exceptions for this list will probably be:

Double based Kn will become single based knights;
Double based Bw X BwO will become single based HF defensive spear, single based MF crossbow in a BG with half its bases of each type.

I have found that where you get max of 2 or 3 bases in DBM, the FOG minimum BG size becomes 4, so you might need a couple more Saracen nobles.

Classification of Saracen horse archers may change from LH as there has been some discussion of this on certain internet groups (not specifically linked to FOG).

I would expect you to be able to field a FOG army with no changes to your bases, then when you get the book you can see what changes are needed to allow all the options.

Thanks Lawrence,

The total size of the army is smaller when you consider that I have a nearly all the troop options allowed in the DBM list baring the Catalans, Aragonese & Griffons and Ally troops and some are not available when others are (eg Arriere banne not before 1194 or German Mercs before 1235) . As it is now I can field an army dating from 1072 - 1280 except for the Crusader ally of Frederich II (1228-1232), the Griffons (Sicilian Greeks) and naval. My plan is to all the options as per the DBM list so I can, and have, play an early , middle or late period as may take my fancy.

My other ancient army, Pontic, which I have used a couple of times for learning the rules has ALL the options in the DBM list and I have used both the Pike , the Blade and a "no hvy Foot" version with mixed success.

The Dble based elements will probably stay as is (too good to break up) and I will get more bow & spearmen if "Oath" requires them; your comments about needing extra Saracen noble cav is noted as well.

I am about to get "Decline and Fall" to see what hints I might get for some of the troop types.


John Mc