Battlefield Europe v1.9 – month by month

[McGuba]

Sounds very good!

By the way, one reason why the AI is better in this mod is its vision... of course there are scripts etc. but keep this thing with the vision in mind as you proceed...

How did McGuba program the ai to retreat injured units instead of just buying replacements?

I did not as it would require rewriting the code of the base game and I am not a programmer. But I also think that the AI performs "better" in the BE mod than in the original game and it is indeed due to scenario design and scripting and the modified game rules and unit stats, so basically an indirect result of various other changes.

[goose_2]

Sounds very good!

By the way, one reason why the AI is better in this mod is its vision... of course there are scripts etc. but keep this thing with the vision in mind as you proceed...

How did McGuba program the ai to retreat injured units instead of just buying replacements?

I did not as it would require rewriting the code of the base game and I am not a programmer. But I also think that the AI performs "better" in the BE mod than in the original game and it is indeed due to scenario design and scripting and the modified game rules and unit stats, so basically an indirect result of various other changes.

So if I am following you...the units that I saw retreat on their turn they had set in their "script" that they would retreat.

Since I did not kill them they then retreated rather than buying replacements based on their script, correct?

I just never have seen that before and found it shocking and really made me rethink some strategy's. It also really helps the replay and unpredictability of this great mod.

Have you seen any of my playthrough yet?

I am set to post next turn 4 on Friday

[PeteMitchell]

If your time allows I suggest to play and upload more often, e.g. at least twice a week or even more often... as it will be easier for you to remember what is/was happening on this big map...

I also understand that it might be better for your channel to strech the duration of course...

[goose_2]

If your time allows I suggest to play and upload more often, e.g. at least twice a week or even more often... as it will be easier for you to remember what is/was happening on this big map...

I also understand that it might be better for your channel to strech the duration of course...

Well today I posted my last video of Soviet Corps …

That leaves room for more other posts. I was thinking of starting an Allied Corps in honor of Zilla Blitz's very entertaining playthrough of allied corps, but he is postponed posting so I will be not trying a playthrough and concentrate on BE...but I want feedback and will wait to get feedback on my postings before I do turns...

I know I can count on yours Pete

[McGuba]

So if I am following you...the units that I saw retreat on their turn they had set in their "script" that they would retreat.

Not sure which units you mean but yes, it is possible. But I tried to make the AI controlled units of the mod unpredictable. Some are set to defense or just to wait passively, others to attack and these orders can change during the scenario, sometimes more than once. The behaviour of some AI units are also affected by the actions of the human player. Some of them react to the actual tactical or strategic situation.

Have you seen any of my playthrough yet?

I am set to post next turn 4 on Friday

Yes, I have seen some, it is very nice.
But I am afraid that playing the hardest version for a start and skipping the pre-1941 scenarios will result in an early and bitter defeat. At the very minimum I would strongly suggest to read the "Changes" and "Hints" sections of the in game Library - these do not contain spoilers just essential information about the various changes from the base game. These changes were made either to increase the realism or to better suit the needs of such a large and long scenario. While watching the videos I noticed that you were puzzled by some modified game mechanics, most of which are explained in the in-game Library and I think knowing and understanding them are essential for a victory.

Having a general knowledge of the in-family unit upgrade paths is also beneficial, especially in this version when the units can only be upgraded at certain cities, often far behind the frontline so the timing of the upgrades are very important. If too many important units are taken back for upgrade in the same time then there may not be enough in the frontline to fight, but if upgrades are neglected then units become obsolete and will suffer too high losses in the long run. As a general rule, better tanks with bigger guns are considered essential upgrades which should be made as soon as possible but unnecessary upgrades which only add minor stat increases should be avoided. So there are some in-family unit upgrade charts as well in the Library for reference and forward thinking. It is not a spoiler either, as the leaders usually knew what developments were underway and could make their plans accordingly. For example the Kursk offensive was postponed as they were waiting for more new Panthers, Elefants and Tigers to arrive fresh from the factories. Whether if they were right or not for doing so is another question...

And yes, it would be nice to see turns more often if possible, as at this rate it will take like 2 years to reach turn 99. But of course there can be real life time limitations as well so no pressure.

[goose_2]

I will try and read stuff, but it is hard. I have limited time to play so when I find time I try to play, but I will try and read some before my next post.

[goose_2]

So if I am following you...the units that I saw retreat on their turn they had set in their "script" that they would retreat.

Not sure which units you mean but yes, it is possible. But I tried to make the AI controlled units of the mod unpredictable. Some are set to defense or just to wait passively, others to attack and these orders can change during the scenario, sometimes more than once. The behaviour of some AI units are also affected by the actions of the human player. Some of them react to the actual tactical or strategic situation.

Have you seen any of my playthrough yet?

I am set to post next turn 4 on Friday

Yes, I have seen some, it is very nice.
But I am afraid that playing the hardest version for a start and skipping the pre-1941 scenarios will result in an early and bitter defeat. At the very minimum I would strongly suggest to read the "Changes" and "Hints" sections of the in game Library - these do not contain spoilers just essential information about the various changes from the base game. These changes were made either to increase the realism or to better suit the needs of such a large and long scenario. While watching the videos I noticed that you were puzzled by some modified game mechanics, most of which are explained in the in-game Library and I think knowing and understanding them are essential for a victory.

Having a general knowledge of the in-family unit upgrade paths is also beneficial, especially in this version when the units can only be upgraded at certain cities, often far behind the frontline so the timing of the upgrades are very important. If too many important units are taken back for upgrade in the same time then there may not be enough in the frontline to fight, but if upgrades are neglected then units become obsolete and will suffer too high losses in the long run. As a general rule, better tanks with bigger guns are considered essential upgrades which should be made as soon as possible but unnecessary upgrades which only add minor stat increases should be avoided. So there are some in-family unit upgrade charts as well in the Library for reference and forward thinking. It is not a spoiler either, as the leaders usually knew what developments were underway and could make their plans accordingly. For example the Kursk offensive was postponed as they were waiting for more new Panthers, Elefants and Tigers to arrive fresh from the factories. Whether if they were right or not for doing so is another question...

And yes, it would be nice to see turns more often if possible, as at this rate it will take like 2 years to reach turn 99. But of course there can be real life time limitations as well so no pressure.

I read some of the stuff and I have a quick question that I asked on my channel, but would also like to get your thoughts on as well.

So I have a 2 starred Pz1B that I want upgraded...of course.

So in reading the upgrade paths Pz3's upgrade in house to Panthers.

Do you recommend upgrading to a Pz3 so I can in house upgrade to a Panther later on...
or
Pz4 because Pz3's do not have the same punch as Pz4's into 1942.
or
Should I wait until I can upgrade to a Tiger and use it for Partisan duty in the West while I wait that longtime before Tiger's are available?

Or maybe you are thinking something totally different with my upgrades. Let me know.

Thanks McGuba for making such an awesome mod.

[PeteMitchell]

Here is my view: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1q7bcVXl4a4

[McGuba]

So in reading the upgrade paths Pz3's upgrade in house to Panthers.

Do you recommend upgrading to a Pz3 so I can in house upgrade to a Panther later on...
or
Pz4 because Pz3's do not have the same punch as Pz4's into 1942.

It is a very interesting problem and it is good that you realized it early on as it is never too late to start thinking about these things. Now I hate to say, but the answere is not simple as it depends on your playing style and general strategy. Different players will give you different answere as well. Personally, I usually upgrade 2-3 of the obsolete light tanks to Pz.IV and the rest to Pz.III. As you wrote, if you have too few long gun Pz.IVs then you might have problems dealing with the hordes Soviet tanks in 1942-43 as the long gun Pz.III is not really superior to them, more like an even match at best. To some extent it can be compensated by having more StuG IIIGs and other self propelled ATs. But they are not as good in the offensive as the Pz.IV. And if you only have the two starting Pz.IVs and lose one or both of them before the Panthers arrive then there is a problem.

But there can be other considerations, for example in our last full multiplayer game Uhu upgraded more Pz.IVs than me, up to 4-5 or maybe even more, to have a better chance for an early victory in the east. (And he upgraded some of them even before the arrival of the long gun version, so these had to be taken back to Germany once again.) The long gun Pz.IV is superior to the Soviet tanks until early 1944, when the T-34/85 and the other heavies start to arrive. But it is a kind of a gamble as if victory is not achieved early enough then the player ends up having a number of somewhat obsolete Pz.IVs in 1944-45 and there will not be enough prestige for many Panther upgrades.

And then of course there is the choice of having only cheaper Pz.III upgrades and more AT guns, save more prestige and then spend it on having a number of Panthers when they become available. In this way the player can enjoy technical superiority from mid/late 1943, but may have problems before that and as a result may run out of time. Nevertheless, as said, with some extra StuG IIIs and good tactics it can also work.

And then there can be times when the actual strategic situation overrides all previous considerations, e.g. your tanks can be just too busy on the frontline to be taken back for an upgrade of your choice. But if you postpone the important upgrades they will be easy prey to the later enemy tanks.

Finally, timing is also important as usually the early versions of these new tanks are more expensive and they become cheaper with each later version to reflect the increased and simplified production which reduces the price of the individual vehicles. Additionally, the early types have lower max fuel reducing their range which simulates the initial reliablility problems. Units with low fuel have to stop more often for a turn for refueling limiting their tactical value which simulates that they breake down more often and they require regular repairs limiting their effectiveness. For example the first version of the Panther, the Panther D is more expensive and less reliable (has less maximum fuel) than the later versions. So it may not be a good idea to upgrade all existing Pz.IIIs to this type. Perhaps the best is to upgrade only one or two to have some much needed boost in the frontline with these and then wait a few turns with the rest for the better and cheaper Panther A. Or maybe completely ignore the Panther D and only upgrade tanks to the better Panther A and even later to the excellent Panther G.

To make things even more complicated, note that one Pz.II and one Pz.38 can also get a scripted upgrade to a Marder AT in 1942 for a small fee if they are transfered back to Kiel in Germany. There will be an in-game message about that. It may also be a good idea as the Marders are not dead ends, check the upgrade charts on this. I guess players will again give you different answere if it is worth it or not. Just do what you think is right.

or
Should I wait until I can upgrade to a Tiger and use it for Partisan duty in the West while I wait that longtime before Tiger's are available?

In this mod Tigers are very expensive, so Tiger upgrades are generally not recommended. Maybe just one, if prestige allows, and if really needed. Historically, a Tiger I cost much more than a Panther and it is reflected here.

However, in late 1942 a single Tiger I unit will appear in Germany as a "gift" to the player for free which then can be transfered where it is most needed. But this unit has low fuel / reliability issues like the early Panther types. Later it can be upgraded to a better version with more fuel though.

I think using German tanks for partisan duties is waste of resources. Maybe one or both of the two captured French tank units can be used as such as these cannot be upgraded to anything. Or the weak Italian one that starts in the Balkans. But these can also be used in the east as support tanks for a while.

I hope it helped and did not confuse you even more.

[Spiffing Brit]

So in reading the upgrade paths Pz3's upgrade in house to Panthers.

Do you recommend upgrading to a Pz3 so I can in house upgrade to a Panther later on...
or
Pz4 because Pz3's do not have the same punch as Pz4's into 1942.

It is a very interesting problem and it is good that you realized it early on as it is never too late to start thinking about these things. Now I hate to say, but the answere is not simple as it depends on your playing style and general strategy. Different players will give you different answere as well. Personally, I usually upgrade 2-3 of the obsolete light tanks to Pz.IV and the rest to Pz.III. As you wrote, if you have too few long gun Pz.IVs then you might have problems dealing with the hordes Soviet tanks in 1942-43 as the long gun Pz.III is not really superior to them, more like an even match at best. To some extent it can be compensated by having more StuG IIIGs and other self propelled ATs. But they are not as good in the offensive as the Pz.IV. And if you only have the two starting Pz.IVs and lose one or both of them before the Panthers arrive then there is a problem.

But there can be other considerations, for example in our last full multiplayer game Uhu upgraded more Pz.IVs than me, up to 4-5 or maybe even more, to have a better chance for an early victory in the east. (And he upgraded some of them even before the arrival of the long gun version, so these had to be taken back to Germany once again.) The long gun Pz.IV is superior to the Soviet tanks until early 1944, when the T-34/85 and the other heavies start to arrive. But it is a kind of a gamble as if victory is not achieved early enough then the player ends up having a number of somewhat obsolete Pz.IVs in 1944-45 and there will not be enough prestige for many Panther upgrades.

And then of course there is the choice of having only cheaper Pz.III upgrades and more AT guns, save more prestige and then spend it on having a number of Panthers when they become available. In this way the player can enjoy technical superiority from mid/late 1943, but may have problems before that and as a result may run out of time. Nevertheless, as said, with some extra StuG IIIs and good tactics it can also work.

And then there can be times when the actual strategic situation overrides all previous considerations, e.g. your tanks can be just too busy on the frontline to be taken back for an upgrade of your choice. But if you postpone the important upgrades they will be easy prey to the later enemy tanks.

Finally, timing is also important as usually the early versions of these new tanks are more expensive and they become cheaper with each later version to reflect the increased and simplified production which reduces the price of the individual vehicles. Additionally, the early types have lower max fuel reducing their range which simulates the initial reliablility problems. Units with low fuel have to stop more often for a turn for refueling limiting their tactical value which simulates that they breake down more often and they require regular repairs limiting their effectiveness. For example the first version of the Panther, the Panther D is more expensive and less reliable (has less maximum fuel) than the later versions. So it may not be a good idea to upgrade all existing Pz.IIIs to this type. Perhaps the best is to upgrade only one or two to have some much needed boost in the frontline with these and then wait a few turns with the rest for the better and cheaper Panther A. Or maybe completely ignore the Panther D and only upgrade tanks to the better Panther A and even later to the excellent Panther G.

To make things even more complicated, note that one Pz.II and one Pz.38 can also get a scripted upgrade to a Marder AT in 1942 for a small fee if they are transfered back to Kiel in Germany. There will be an in-game message about that. It may also be a good idea as the Marders are not dead ends, check the upgrade charts on this. I guess players will again give you different answere if it is worth it or not. Just do what you think is right.

or
Should I wait until I can upgrade to a Tiger and use it for Partisan duty in the West while I wait that longtime before Tiger's are available?

In this mod Tigers are very expensive, so Tiger upgrades are generally not recommended. Maybe just one, if prestige allows, and if really needed. Historically, a Tiger I cost much more than a Panther and it is reflected here.

However, in late 1942 a single Tiger I unit will appear in Germany as a "gift" to the player for free which then can be transfered where it is most needed. But this unit has low fuel / reliability issues like the early Panther types. Later it can be upgraded to a better version with more fuel though.

I think using German tanks for partisan duties is waste of resources. Maybe one or both of the two captured French tank units can be used as such as these cannot be upgraded to anything. Or the weak Italian one that starts in the Balkans. But these can also be used in the east as support tanks for a while.

I hope it helped and did not confuse you even more.

Fascinating stuff! I am playing the allies rn, and had a few questions about the reinforcement schedule, mainly the timing of the winter counter attack dudes. I was wondering when they show up, the Germans just surrendered Minsk and the troops at Smolensk are the only things in their way to Moscow.

[PeteMitchell]

Fascinating stuff! I am playing the allies rn, and had a few questions about the reinforcement schedule, mainly the timing of the winter counter attack dudes. I was wondering when they show up, the Germans just surrendered Minsk and the troops at Smolensk are the only things in their way to Moscow.

Yes, indeed!

As you probably know, single and multiplayer are not exactly the same when it comes to reinforcements and triggers etc. As far as I recall for single player I think turn 11 is fairly important for the area around Moscow...

[McGuba]

Fascinating stuff! I am playing the allies rn, and had a few questions about the reinforcement schedule, mainly the timing of the winter counter attack dudes. I was wondering when they show up, the Germans just surrendered Minsk and the troops at Smolensk are the only things in their way to Moscow.

In BE v2.15 multiplayer it is a little bit different than earlier, new Soviet units appear continuously, but not so close to Moscow. More and more Soviet units appear as you go into the autumn and winter but ideally, some or most of the active starting Soviet units should be moved there as well from turn 1 even if they are quite far at that point.

Reaching/holding Moscow in 1941 is a close call for both sides but I think now it is a bit easier for the Allied side to hold it at least until early 1942. We played two paired matches with Uhu recently: while in BE v2.13 both of us could capture Moscow with the Axis relatively easily by early 1942, in v2.15 both of us failed to move into the city by the end of 1941 and the Soviets had fairly strong defenses all around. I think in v2.15 it is harder to capture it with the Axis. The Axis has to move very fast and efficient to reach it before the winter and the Allied has to be a bit unlucky and inexperienced to lose it early on. But even if the Axis cannot reach it before the onset of the winter he may still be able to capture it later.

As you probably know, single and multiplayer are not exactly the same when it comes to reinforcements and triggers etc. As far as I recall for single player I think turn 11 is fairly important for the area around Moscow..

It is still relatively important, but less so i.e. less Soviet units are affected if the Axis can reach the Soviet capital early.

[Spiffing Brit]

Fascinating stuff! I am playing the allies rn, and had a few questions about the reinforcement schedule, mainly the timing of the winter counter attack dudes. I was wondering when they show up, the Germans just surrendered Minsk and the troops at Smolensk are the only things in their way to Moscow.

In BE v2.15 multiplayer it is a little bit different than earlier, new Soviet units appear continuously, but not so close to Moscow. More and more Soviet units appear as you go into the autumn and winter but ideally, some or most of the active starting Soviet units should be moved there as well from turn 1 even if they are quite far at that point.

Reaching/holding Moscow in 1941 is a close call for both sides but I think now it is a bit easier for the Allied side to hold it at least until early 1942. We played two paired matches with Uhu recently: while in BE v2.13 both of us could capture Moscow with the Axis relatively easily by early 1942, in v2.15 both of us failed to move into the city by the end of 1941 and the Soviets had fairly strong defenses all around. I think in v2.15 it is harder to capture it with the Axis. The Axis has to move very fast and efficient to reach it before the winter and the Allied has to be a bit unlucky and inexperienced to lose it early on. But even if the Axis cannot reach it before the onset of the winter he may still be able to capture it later.

As you probably know, single and multiplayer are not exactly the same when it comes to reinforcements and triggers etc. As far as I recall for single player I think turn 11 is fairly important for the area around Moscow..

It is still relatively important, but less so i.e. less Soviet units are affected if the Axis can reach the Soviet capital early.

Very nice, very nice. Let's hope those forces materialize soon around Moscow! It is looking very naked atm.

[Spiffing Brit]

Fascinating stuff! I am playing the allies rn, and had a few questions about the reinforcement schedule, mainly the timing of the winter counter attack dudes. I was wondering when they show up, the Germans just surrendered Minsk and the troops at Smolensk are the only things in their way to Moscow.

In BE v2.15 multiplayer it is a little bit different than earlier, new Soviet units appear continuously, but not so close to Moscow. More and more Soviet units appear as you go into the autumn and winter but ideally, some or most of the active starting Soviet units should be moved there as well from turn 1 even if they are quite far at that point.

Reaching/holding Moscow in 1941 is a close call for both sides but I think now it is a bit easier for the Allied side to hold it at least until early 1942. We played two paired matches with Uhu recently: while in BE v2.13 both of us could capture Moscow with the Axis relatively easily by early 1942, in v2.15 both of us failed to move into the city by the end of 1941 and the Soviets had fairly strong defenses all around. I think in v2.15 it is harder to capture it with the Axis. The Axis has to move very fast and efficient to reach it before the winter and the Allied has to be a bit unlucky and inexperienced to lose it early on. But even if the Axis cannot reach it before the onset of the winter he may still be able to capture it later.

As you probably know, single and multiplayer are not exactly the same when it comes to reinforcements and triggers etc. As far as I recall for single player I think turn 11 is fairly important for the area around Moscow..

It is still relatively important, but less so i.e. less Soviet units are affected if the Axis can reach the Soviet capital early.

Very nice, very nice. Let's hope those forces materialize soon around Moscow! It is looking very naked atm. North Africa is looking up though, so let's hope it stays that way lol.

[goose_2]

Fascinating stuff! I am playing the allies rn, and had a few questions about the reinforcement schedule, mainly the timing of the winter counter attack dudes. I was wondering when they show up, the Germans just surrendered Minsk and the troops at Smolensk are the only things in their way to Moscow.

Yes, indeed!

As you probably know, single and multiplayer are not exactly the same when it comes to reinforcements and triggers etc. As far as I recall for single player I think turn 11 is fairly important for the area around Moscow...

When do you think you and I can try mp? I know you said you need sometime away, but I forget how much time, and you seem awfully interested in maybe giving it a go.

[PeteMitchell]

Fascinating stuff! I am playing the allies rn, and had a few questions about the reinforcement schedule, mainly the timing of the winter counter attack dudes. I was wondering when they show up, the Germans just surrendered Minsk and the troops at Smolensk are the only things in their way to Moscow.

Yes, indeed!

As you probably know, single and multiplayer are not exactly the same when it comes to reinforcements and triggers etc. As far as I recall for single player I think turn 11 is fairly important for the area around Moscow...

When do you think you and I can try mp? I know you said you need sometime away, but I forget how much time, and you seem awfully interested in maybe giving it a go.

Thanks goose_2! Well, right now I am still playing GC 41...

Not sure I will play BE MP again, probably only via the server and not hot seat anymore (although full dice is very frustrating with BE)... Will see maybe next year...

[goose_2]

Bummer...ok, I will be patient...but it would be a good way to get me to 2 posts a week

[Kiane]

Fascinating stuff! I am playing the allies rn, and had a few questions about the reinforcement schedule, mainly the timing of the winter counter attack dudes. I was wondering when they show up, the Germans just surrendered Minsk and the troops at Smolensk are the only things in their way to Moscow.

In BE v2.15 multiplayer it is a little bit different than earlier, new Soviet units appear continuously, but not so close to Moscow. More and more Soviet units appear as you go into the autumn and winter but ideally, some or most of the active starting Soviet units should be moved there as well from turn 1 even if they are quite far at that point.

Reaching/holding Moscow in 1941 is a close call for both sides but I think now it is a bit easier for the Allied side to hold it at least until early 1942. We played two paired matches with Uhu recently: while in BE v2.13 both of us could capture Moscow with the Axis relatively easily by early 1942, in v2.15 both of us failed to move into the city by the end of 1941 and the Soviets had fairly strong defenses all around. I think in v2.15 it is harder to capture it with the Axis. The Axis has to move very fast and efficient to reach it before the winter and the Allied has to be a bit unlucky and inexperienced to lose it early on. But even if the Axis cannot reach it before the onset of the winter he may still be able to capture it later.

As you probably know, single and multiplayer are not exactly the same when it comes to reinforcements and triggers etc. As far as I recall for single player I think turn 11 is fairly important for the area around Moscow..

It is still relatively important, but less so i.e. less Soviet units are affected if the Axis can reach the Soviet capital early.

Very nice, very nice. Let's hope those forces materialize soon around Moscow! It is looking very naked atm. North Africa is looking up though, so let's hope it stays that way lol.

For context on North Africa. I ran into his hidden anti-gun with my Italian recon, losing it, then it vaporized my panzer 3 the next turn. You should turn that AT gun into a mobile unit. Hero of the Allies

[Spiffing Brit]

In BE v2.15 multiplayer it is a little bit different than earlier, new Soviet units appear continuously, but not so close to Moscow. More and more Soviet units appear as you go into the autumn and winter but ideally, some or most of the active starting Soviet units should be moved there as well from turn 1 even if they are quite far at that point.

Reaching/holding Moscow in 1941 is a close call for both sides but I think now it is a bit easier for the Allied side to hold it at least until early 1942. We played two paired matches with Uhu recently: while in BE v2.13 both of us could capture Moscow with the Axis relatively easily by early 1942, in v2.15 both of us failed to move into the city by the end of 1941 and the Soviets had fairly strong defenses all around. I think in v2.15 it is harder to capture it with the Axis. The Axis has to move very fast and efficient to reach it before the winter and the Allied has to be a bit unlucky and inexperienced to lose it early on. But even if the Axis cannot reach it before the onset of the winter he may still be able to capture it later.




It is still relatively important, but less so i.e. less Soviet units are affected if the Axis can reach the Soviet capital early.

Very nice, very nice. Let's hope those forces materialize soon around Moscow! It is looking very naked atm. North Africa is looking up though, so let's hope it stays that way lol.

For context on North Africa. I ran into his hidden anti-gun with my Italian recon, losing it, then it vaporized my panzer 3 the next turn. You should turn that AT gun into a mobile unit. Hero of the Allies

Lol, I'll probably rename it something like the Rommel Busters to commemorate this great victory. Medals for them all!

[goose_2]

I am such an idiot....I literally read this today and then did something dumb with my good guys in Italy. Lost them to the stupid AT too., n UGH!!!