How to go forward with Axis (not: German) Operations and the need for multiple cores - some hopes for the future

[Kerensky]

I'm not ready to completely give up on AI Allies just yet.

Maybe in 2nd Generation implementation... We'll see how players respond to AI that has preset orders instead of having to fiddle with giving it orders. And not being forced to rely on it to do extremely vital infantry duties. And separate AI prestige from player prestige pools...

[Rhaeg]

I'm not ready to completely give up on AI Allies just yet.

Maybe in 2nd Generation implementation... We'll see how players respond to AI that has preset orders instead of having to fiddle with giving it orders. And not being forced to rely on it to do extremely vital infantry duties. And separate AI prestige from player prestige pools...

I loved the AI system in SCW, but I can't think of any future scenario in AO where using it would make sense again. During WW2 the Axis nations fought under German command in North Africa and on the Eastern front. Using the Allied AI system "because we have it now" would be a mistake, IMO. That's not the right reason for using a system like that.

[adiekmann]

I'm not ready to completely give up on AI Allies just yet.

Maybe in 2nd Generation implementation... We'll see how players respond to AI that has preset orders instead of having to fiddle with giving it orders. And not being forced to rely on it to do extremely vital infantry duties. And separate AI prestige from player prestige pools...

I loved the AI system in SCW, but I can't think of any future scenario in AO where using it would make sense again. During WW2 the Axis nations fought under German command in North Africa and on the Eastern front. Using the Allied AI system "because we have it now" would be a mistake, IMO. That's not the right reason for using a system like that.

Agree with Rhaeg 100%. Worked well and made a lot of sense given the realities of German involvement in SCW. It was different, interesting (while yes frustrating at times too) but reflected the limited secondary influence the Germans had during the conflict. Hell, the DLC already oversteps it with your direct control of the armor and artillery. But again, absolutely no such rationale exists for an AI controlled Italian faction in Africa or anyone or anywhere else for that matter.

Please Kerensky, give us a situation where you think the AI and not the "German General in command" (i.e. you the player) are not directly giving the orders to Italian, Romanian, Hungarian, etc. troops? Maybe Finland? They were eager to retake their lost territories from the Winter War but didn't have much interest in pushing beyond that. Don't implement it just for the sake of using it again. Perhaps there is a logical point, I just can't think of one on my own (historically) where it makes sense. Perhaps another German Army from another location? Where there was of course coordination between the two, like the post Stalingard scenario in the vanilla campaign? But that full AI control as an AI. That I get.

[Kiane]

I'm not ready to completely give up on AI Allies just yet.

Maybe in 2nd Generation implementation... We'll see how players respond to AI that has preset orders instead of having to fiddle with giving it orders. And not being forced to rely on it to do extremely vital infantry duties. And separate AI prestige from player prestige pools...

I loved the AI system in SCW, but I can't think of any future scenario in AO where using it would make sense again. During WW2 the Axis nations fought under German command in North Africa and on the Eastern front. Using the Allied AI system "because we have it now" would be a mistake, IMO. That's not the right reason for using a system like that.

Agree with Rhaeg 100%. Worked well and made a lot of sense given the realities of German involvement in SCW. It was different, interesting (while yes frustrating at times too) but reflected the limited secondary influence the Germans had during the conflict. Hell, the DLC already oversteps it with your direct control of the armor and artillery. But again, absolutely no such rationale exists for an AI controlled Italian faction in Africa or anyone or anywhere else for that matter.

Please Kerensky, give us a situation where you think the AI and not the "German General in command" (i.e. you the player) are not directly giving the orders to Italian, Romanian, Hungarian, etc. troops? Maybe Finland? They were eager to retake their lost territories from the Winter War but didn't have much interest in pushing beyond that. Don't implement it just for the sake of using it again. Perhaps there is a logical point, I just can't think of one on my own (historically) where it makes sense. Perhaps another German Army from another location? Where there was of course coordination between the two, like the post Stalingard scenario in the vanilla campaign? But that full AI control as an AI. That I get.

Africa had serious command issues. It wasn't until late 1941 that Rommel was in actual command of both the Germans and Italians IIRC.

[adiekmann]

I loved the AI system in SCW, but I can't think of any future scenario in AO where using it would make sense again. During WW2 the Axis nations fought under German command in North Africa and on the Eastern front. Using the Allied AI system "because we have it now" would be a mistake, IMO. That's not the right reason for using a system like that.

Agree with Rhaeg 100%. Worked well and made a lot of sense given the realities of German involvement in SCW. It was different, interesting (while yes frustrating at times too) but reflected the limited secondary influence the Germans had during the conflict. Hell, the DLC already oversteps it with your direct control of the armor and artillery. But again, absolutely no such rationale exists for an AI controlled Italian faction in Africa or anyone or anywhere else for that matter.

Please Kerensky, give us a situation where you think the AI and not the "German General in command" (i.e. you the player) are not directly giving the orders to Italian, Romanian, Hungarian, etc. troops? Maybe Finland? They were eager to retake their lost territories from the Winter War but didn't have much interest in pushing beyond that. Don't implement it just for the sake of using it again. Perhaps there is a logical point, I just can't think of one on my own (historically) where it makes sense. Perhaps another German Army from another location? Where there was of course coordination between the two, like the post Stalingard scenario in the vanilla campaign? But that full AI control as an AI. That I get.

Africa had serious command issues. It wasn't until late 1941 that Rommel was in actual command of both the Germans and Italians IIRC.

Yes, I am aware and even on paper there was an Italian commander above him at least initially. But make no mistake, Rommel did what he wanted and ordered the Italians too. Now, whether they did or not is an entirely different matter.

[KesaAnna]

Allow ANY Axis power to purchase ANY Axis equipment .

If , for example , for some reason you really , really , really wanted a unit of Breda Ba 65's , I don't think it is too far - fetched to pretend that the Italians would let you buy them , or produce them yourself under license.

Problem solved ?

As far as infantry - type units are concerned , while I don't know for a fact how easy or how difficult it is to make unit models , I suspect Slitherine could make some easy money selling a Finnish - Slovak - Bulgarian - Bersagliari - Bosnian Moslem - etc infantry pack , which , likewise , allows your Germans to purchase your favorite ethnic or nationality flavor as core units.

Problem solved ?

But , apparently , it isn't problem solved ---

--- but for a reason , curiously , that hasn't been named in this thread.

Why is there a " need " for multiple cores ?

Well , maybe my case is unique , but , already , with 80 core slots at the Battle of Warsaw , I never the less wind up with one - third of my core parked in reserve.

Likewise , as much as I like the commendation point and gift units , already by the end of AO 1939 there is little room for them on the battlefield.

Like I said , one - third of my core parked in reserve is already routine , and even in big battles too.

Hmmm.......

I would venture to say then ,

that ,

basically , the auxilliary mechanic is at best a bit meh , at worst it sucks.

How about just give us a bigger core to begin with , and the freedom to purchase whatever Axis equipment we want ?

( I think that in Spain the Auxiliary mechanic was an absolute good thing. It allowed you to bulk out your force with units that were equal to , or even occasionally better than , your own core , and with a different ethnic / nationality flavor too. And it doesn't really matter that the auxiliaries are green. Generally speaking , 1936 - 1938 everyone is green anyway.

But , already with AO 1939 , the Auxiliary mechanic is an annoying redundancy. the only plus left is the bulking out your force bit. Most likely you are buying a unit you ALREADY have in your core , and most likely the core unit you have parked in reserve is better than , or at least equal to , the auxiliary unit you are buying. And , of course , the different ethnic / nationality flavor , if I remember correctly , is gone too. )