Maps and Victory Points

[SimonLancaster]

I am playing an Early Middle Ages friendly match. Pic of start of battle below. Both armies have two hills to sit on and a stream running through the centre of the map. In my experience, these type of maps are seen more in the later periods. In the Classical period which I am more familiar with, you get a lot more flat plains.

It just seems to me a map for a draw. I am making a little feint on the right with my cavalry but my enemy can just sit on the hill and ignore that if he wants to. I don't think it is a good idea for either army to attack as things stand.

I did mention adding victory points in games some time ago. Maybe it would be useful here? Maybe more useful in Early Middle Ages games? Someone said to me in reply that in the Biblical/Classical periods they didn't think about taking land or a particular space as the focus was just on defeating the enemy. But, when did this change? Surely it must of occurred at some point in the Middle Ages.. when it became important to take a strategic strongpoint.

All thoughts are welcome!

hills.jpg (628.4 KiB) Viewed 2829 times

[TheGrayMouser]

You have Cavalry superiority and a high concentration of leaders on your right flank, hardly a a “feint”. Stop with the timid thoughts, encircle and destroy The blue bellies!

In my experience Northern Europe terrain is a little more rugged than the Mediterranean.

[SimonLancaster]

What is cavalry superiority if he just sits on that hill?

[kronenblatt]

...

I did mention adding victory points in games some time ago. Maybe it would be useful here?

...

What do you mean by Victory Points in the context of FoG2, and which types of Victory Points do you have in mind?

[melm]

Anglos were camping on a hill and they still lost.

[SimonLancaster]

Usually VPs are in the middle of a map and encourage both sides to move forward. Just an idea.. not sure how it would work. In the map above perhaps there could be a bridge/crossing that could be taken at that damn stream. That would encourage both armies to get off their hills....

[MVP7]

There is the quick battle type where both sides gain points from having units on enemy side a of no mans land in middle of the battlefield. With random maps even that tends to ultimately favor one side in some way and would probably cause as about as many complaints of game artificially forcing you to advance from otherwise advantageous positions.

Victory points or locations also tend to have their issues. If there's an even number of them they are meaningless. If there's an odd number then whichever side ends up capturing the most can just sit tight and wait while the other side will complain about being unfairly forced to attack arbitrary positions.

[TomoeGozen]

If it's a friendly game I'm not sure why either you don't just have a go or you just abandon the game and start it again with a different map. In a tournament game , perhaps you don't get awarded any points for a draw unless you score at least 20% casualties or something like that. Just thinking aloud.

[TheGrayMouser]

What is cavalry superiority if he just sits on that hill?

Well, you could envelope his rear and flank with them to threaten while assaulting with your infantry. The hill looks mild and if so a 25 poa bonus to your enemy isn’t the end of the world.

[stockwellpete]

I don't see a problem with that map. Get on his left flank and attack the hill from there. Looking at it from the left, he cannot defend the protruding right-hand flank of his position without having his troops attacked from 3 sides, so your best infantry troops go up that bit. From what I can see your cavalry can go where they like and encircle too. I think you have to have a go on a map like this.

[SimonLancaster]

The latest is that he is nice and snug on that hill. The hill is at 100 height so he gets maximum advantage if I attack on it. Interestingly, he has three cavalry units hidden away ready for a sneak attack on me (one more popped up when I went closer after this pic).

My idea is to attack that cavalry and kill it. I am diverting troops so that also might entice my enemy off the hill to attack me when I am weaker. I did manage to wipe out a few skirmishers.

In all honesty, in a map like this for a league game I would just try for the 25%. For a knockout I think we could agree on another map.

[rbodleyscott]

The latest is that he is nice and snug on that hill. The hill is at 100 height so he gets maximum advantage if I attack on it.

If the hill is height 100 he will not get maximum advantage, because if he is on top of the hill, your units will be on the slope which will be height 50 (or 25 at the corners). So the height difference will not be > 75 and he will only get +25 POA. That is overcomeable.

Your hill, on the other hand, slopes from height 0 to at least height 200 in some parts, and if he attacks it at those points the height differential will be > 75 ands you would be on +100 POA. He would therefore have to be mad to attack you.

It is impossible to get more than +25 height advantage on a height 100 hill (unless the bottom of the hill is -100 height, which might happen in some Epic Battles, but won't ever happen in a Custom or Campaign battle).

[SimonLancaster]

I thought that height 100 got more than +25 POA. Under 100 got +25 POA. Isn't there a difference in the POA advantage once you get to 100?

[rbodleyscott]

I thought that height 100 got more than +25 POA. Under 100 got +25 POA. Isn't there a difference in the POA advantage once you get to 100?

It isn't the height of the hill that matters, it is the difference in height between the squares the two units are on. If that is more than 75 you get +100 POA, otherwise +25.

In this case it won't be more than 75, because the hill is height 100 and the slopes are height 50 on the straights and 25 at the corners. So the differential height cannot be more than 75.

[SimonLancaster]

The end to the story is that I won. I did my little feint around the back of him. He had some hidden cavalry which came out. I managed to engage it and he sent a few more infantry units over to help his cavalry. I managed to rout his cavalry and then engaged his infantry at the back. I didn't have to attack the hill until later when the game had turned my way.