Captured equipment

[kondi754]

I think it would be a good idea to make some types of captured equipment a bit cheaper.
Keep in mind that these units deplete faster, because their reinforcement depend on the amount of equipment acquired on the enemy
For example, I mean 105mm Vickers cannon, which has the same stats as the German 105mm howitzer and if it were a bit cheaper (e.g. 180-190 prestige rather than 210) I would probably buy it sooner or update one of my German arty units. In the case of identical statistics and prices, the purchase of Vickers is unprofitable, because I may have problems with replenishing it later in the event of greater losses

[SineMora]

Capturing equipment is already ridiculously profitable, though -- you get the full prestige value of a unit modified by its current strength when you capture it (unless you're using Trophies, Scavenger etc, in which case you make even more). It doesn't cost you any additional prestige to deploy them as you've already received it.

[kondi754]

Capturing equipment is already ridiculously profitable, though -- you get the full prestige value of a unit modified by its current strength when you capture it (unless you're using Trophies, Scavenger etc, in which case you make even more). It doesn't cost you any additional prestige to deploy them as you've already received it.

So I have to watch events on the map better, because I didn't notice any increase in prestige, except when my unit occupies enemy VPs
But if this is the case then ok

[kondi754]

Yes, you're right
The most important traits in SCW are Perimeter Control and War Trophies.
I admit that I underestimated the second one until Brunete, where, for at least half of the missions, any advance and earning VPs for prestige is (at least for me) impossible.
The only thing left to the player is to gain prestige by trapping and forcing enemy units to surrender.
Eh, you learn all your life, although I have to say that coming up with new ways to isolate Republicans is extremely interesting.
It seems to me that I finally understood the idea of PzC 2 when I was playing SCW. The game is very difficult for me, but very satisfying

[Kerensky]

Yes, you're right
The most important traits in SCW are Perimeter Control and War Trophies.
I admit that I underestimated the second one until Brunete, where, for at least half of the missions, any advance and earning VPs for prestige is (at least for me) impossible.
The only thing left to the player is to gain prestige by trapping and forcing enemy units to surrender.
Eh, you learn all your life, although I have to say that coming up with new ways to isolate Republicans is extremely interesting.
It seems to me that I finally understood the idea of PzC 2 when I was playing SCW. The game is very difficult for me, but very satisfying

Currently playing Brunete on Generalissimo difficulty, I deeply regret not turning on a prestige per turn option for this defensive scenario.

On this difficulty mode, I would literally be game over without the prestige injections from Trophies of War...

Which is acceptable, if just barely, because it is the highest difficulty settings in the game. Still doesn't mean that scenario doesn't hurt.

[nexusno2000]

Yes, you're right
The most important traits in SCW are Perimeter Control and War Trophies.
I admit that I underestimated the second one until Brunete, where, for at least half of the missions, any advance and earning VPs for prestige is (at least for me) impossible.
The only thing left to the player is to gain prestige by trapping and forcing enemy units to surrender.
Eh, you learn all your life, although I have to say that coming up with new ways to isolate Republicans is extremely interesting.
It seems to me that I finally understood the idea of PzC 2 when I was playing SCW. The game is very difficult for me, but very satisfying

Currently playing Brunete on Generalissimo difficulty, I deeply regret not turning on a prestige per turn option for this defensive scenario.

On this difficulty mode, I would literally be game over without the prestige injections from Trophies of War...

Which is acceptable, if just barely, because it is the highest difficulty settings in the game. Still doesn't mean that scenario doesn't hurt.

In this case it must be ok to say: you brought this upon yourself

[fluffybunnyuk]

Yes, you're right
The most important traits in SCW are Perimeter Control and War Trophies.
I admit that I underestimated the second one until Brunete, where, for at least half of the missions, any advance and earning VPs for prestige is (at least for me) impossible.
The only thing left to the player is to gain prestige by trapping and forcing enemy units to surrender.
Eh, you learn all your life, although I have to say that coming up with new ways to isolate Republicans is extremely interesting.
It seems to me that I finally understood the idea of PzC 2 when I was playing SCW. The game is very difficult for me, but very satisfying

Currently playing Brunete on Generalissimo difficulty, I deeply regret not turning on a prestige per turn option for this defensive scenario.

On this difficulty mode, I would literally be game over without the prestige injections from Trophies of War...

Which is acceptable, if just barely, because it is the highest difficulty settings in the game. Still doesn't mean that scenario doesn't hurt.

I find the best strategy is to allocate maps for different things.
If its a tough map like a Ebro/Bagration thing where not killing units fast is going to hurt ,I use it for awards/xp.
If its an easier map, I use it for captures.

An example is Seville-Capture map,Antequera-Capture map, Merida-kill fast map.
I sort of proceed like that building up prestige first/equipment then hosing a map down.

Brunete i just killed fast, and headed for the top hex about turn 12 or 13. A large map like that didnt seem like it was worth the effort to stop for captures.
Whereas at Zaragoza, I took the time to hammer down the minefield to get at the juicy vickers guns for captures.

[kondi754]

@Kerensky, nexusno2000
Brunete scenario hurts like the excretion of kidney stones

@fluffybunnyuk
So you think that the combination of capturing the map with quick unit elimination is impossible at higher difficulty levels ?

[fluffybunnyuk]

I'm just a bunny with very little brain. So i keep things simple.
Do i need money/captures? If no then deploy steamroller blitzkrieg 6 movement units, and just get it done quick.
Offense is a valid form of defense if it minimizes soaking up lots of meaningless casualties in a defensive position.
If yes then deploy capture setup.

Anything thats overly tactical/strategic, or involves bad terrain or alot of travel, i cant be bothered to hang about in.
Not because i dont like them. I love them. I just like hoarding, and guarding my prestige more.

I can do both like in the russian line where i stop for kv-2,su-6,su-100y,bm-8. But thats because its exceptional kit, and if i stop then to get it, it minimizes casualties later.
Fielding 4x Su-6 AA guns with 6 range and fire means i can dispense with 88s. saving slots.

I usually run a captures tank with scavenger, and an overstrength +5vs infantry cheese tank. One steamrollers, the other stops to scoop exceptional kit.

[Kerensky]

In this case it must be ok to say: you brought this upon yourself

This is correct. And for the record tasting my own medicine is terrible. But a very high skilled player finding extreme challenge on the highest difficulty level of a game? That is good medicine, not the fake stuff.
For a nanosecond, I considered caving in and to start using cheats. But I persevered (because I want those steam achievements!)

[Kerensky]

I was definitely player Panzer Corps 2 into the late hours of the evening/early morning and looking at my Brunete save file, I made a horrible mistake. Didn't bring any Italian help.

All those unused auxiliary slots, so wasteful. No wonder it hurt extra hard

Might replay it, because I suspect it will really change my outlook on the devastation of that scenario if I didn't go into it with an understrength force.

[Kerensky]

Teruel is also much harder than I remember... I think if I could go back I would definitely tone that scenario down, especially with Teruel getting overrun by around turn 6.

Oh well, still beat it, still got the bonus objective of evacing the medical truck out, so a win's a win.

Thank goodness for Aragon Offensive being a break. That huge timer meant I took so much extra time to recover my prestige by making many, many captures. Entering Ebro back up to 6000 prestige, which should be enough... I hope.

[DarkBlueInk]

I always struggle with this line of response to questions such as the one OP posted:

Capturing equipment is already ridiculously profitable, though -- you get the full prestige value of a unit modified by its current strength when you capture it (unless you're using Trophies, Scavenger etc, in which case you make even more). It doesn't cost you any additional prestige to deploy them as you've already received it.

(bold added)

Yes, you earn prestige when you capture equipment. But that is irrelevant to the question. Whether you earn 0, 100, or whatever it is the cost of the equipment that almost always makes using captured equipment a bad financial/tactical decision. Unless the captured equipment costs less in terms of prestige or slots, or has an offensive/defensive advantage, then you are better off taking your own nation's equipment. Buying the captured equipment limits your repair/resupply with no offsetting advantage.

IRL captured equipment filled gaps created by equipment shortages. That factor is missing in PC2 at the moment and if addressed would increase the value proposition of actually purchasing/using captured equipment.

[Kerensky]

IRL captured equipment filled gaps created by equipment shortages. That factor is missing in PC2 at the moment and if addressed would increase the value proposition of actually purchasing/using captured equipment.

Considering the backlash over limit stockpiles of equipment (look around here or on steam, many a thread about capturing and limited supply and how they 'suck'), I think they made the right call to not make mainline all equipment limited supply.

That Prague solo scenario is the worst scenario of all the purpose built solo scenarios. And that is partly to do with it also having limited equipment supply.

[DarkBlueInk]

Yeah, I'm not saying go all in on limiting equipment supply. But there are certain battles and even certain theaters of war (North Africa as a prime example) where resupply was constricted and there was a greater reliance on captured equipment by both the Germans and the Allies. There was an opportunity to allow captured equipment be a larger factor in the game or at least give you a reason to consider using captured equipment. Outside of early France/Belgium, there is almost no case where captured equipment is a better choice than your own, unlimited supply of equipment.

[kverdon]

The inability to resupply units outfitted with captured equipment was one the reasons units thus equipped were employed as rear-echelon, security or training units. Relying on these type of units for more than 1 battle seems to be a bit of a fallacy.

[kverdon]

The inability to resupply units outfitted with captured equipment was one the reasons units thus equipped were employed as rear-echelon, security or training units. Relying on these type of units for more than 1 battle seems to be a bit of a fallacy.

As Winston Churchill said about eating words. Having restated the campaign and focused nor on capturing units and having the “Trophies of War” trait, I’ve been able to capture enough enemy equipment to totally replace my Panzer1bs with T-26s. That really helps a lot!

[Kerensky]

As Winston Churchill said about eating words. Having restated the campaign and focused nor on capturing units and having the “Trophies of War” trait, I’ve been able to capture enough enemy equipment to totally replace my Panzer1bs with T-26s. That really helps a lot!

That's the catch 22.

Without high density of enemy armor... there are not enough opportunities to capture, and then re-field, those units yourself. The base game suffered from this, in both a scarcity of armor and also scenario progression being relatively fast. For example there are only 2 or 3 Char B tanks in the 3 or so scenarios you fight against the French in 1940. Which maybe is historic, but it doesn't lend itself to fun gameplay mechanics of capturing Char B, and then putting them into battle yourself.

We're not blind to people saying there are ahistoric amounts of tanks in some scenarios. It's an acceptable trade off to get more tank combat (in a game with 'Panzer' literally in the title) and also present more opportunities to really get the capture system a chance to shine. That system is entirely dependent on what the enemy puts on the field, even if it is now also supplemented by some bonus objective rewards and hidden caches.

Also even with so many T-26 captures, I still keep a few Panzer Ib. That 150% RoF is very helpful to chop through 15 base strength enemy infantry.

[kverdon]

Yeah, SCW is a bit of an oddity in that you have pretty much a static set of units for the whole game. In the normal WW2 campaigns, units upgrade and change so fast it’s not as useful to equip captured units. It might be an interesting concept however to make the unit cost value (slot cost) decrease over time so maybe it would be An option to deploy some older but still serviceable units as rear guard units.

I did go overboard with the T-26s but I do love their defense value. They are pretty much immune to Inf and shrug off a lot of Arty. I still do have A Panzer 1b in reserve for the reason you mentioned. The other nice addition is captured heavy arty. Being able to field a unit of 155’s at Ebro was very handy for the added range and hitting power.

[nexusno2000]

With Trophies, Scavenger hero, and some focused captures, I had over 200 T-26 parts at Ebro