I dont like ai allies...

[SineMora]

Pretty much.

Using the correct order (obviously) -- attack to have them advance, hold to have them stay put and defense if you want them to screw things up (you probably don't ever want to use this one frankly...). From what I gather hold is similar to the Hold Position (Fire) order in the editor, so they'll never move but will engage enemies, whereas defend works like Guard Hex, leading to them running off to attack nearby enemies instead. Unfortunately, there is no way to force them to not attack at all -- such as when sitting in a town surrounded by nothing but vehicles -- but it's better than nothing.

The AI will happily prioritize helpless and valuable support units over enemy infantry, so it's imperative to body block these so your precious 370-prestige AA gun doesn't get obliterated by a zealous Colonial Infantry. In fact, body blocking in general is a good way to steer the AI where you want it to go.

On Generalissimus your experienced ally infantry can get near perfect accuracy with a recon or two as support (they benefit from the 20% accuracy bonus from the difficulty setting, so they are miles better than your Italians will ever be) and will obliterate anything that is reasonably suppressed. I'd be vary of leaving artillery behind them though unless they're set to Hold, as they have an unfortunate habit of leaving your support units undefended.

[terminator]

It might be uefull to have a fourth option in the UI to take full control of the AI if it’s possible?

[Horseman]

It might be uefull to have a fourth option in the UI to take full control of the AI if it’s possible?

Its balanced around you not controlling them - if that was an option then they'd have to be significantly weaker.

Plus as AI controlled on higher difficulties they benefit from the bonus accuracy - makes them actually pretty damned tough!

[kondi754]

I play intuitively and try to adapt to the situation on the map. That's why it's probably hard for me to give some good advice, because for me every situation on the map is a bit different and I don't use templates. In my command I'm similar to Patton rather than Montgomery (or at least I really want to think about myself like that ). But when I read what you write about your tactics, I notice that this is often my way how I manage Nationalists (artillery fire, recon units etc.), and that's probably why I'm happy with their actions.

[mr_clark]

Seriously, I will not continue playing this DLC, and it's a shame for the effort that went into it. Apparently "fun" testing wasn'T part of quality control.
The so called "commands" worked mediocre for the first missions and screetched to a halt at Toledo already, were any attempt at sensefull advance or defense by the Nationalist Forces ends in desaster.
If I need to spend virtually all of my prestige on one battle only auxillaries to have a decent chance of a sensible advances, where is the use for the Spanish anyway?
Actually watch for enemies on the flanks, that have been struck by arty and airsupport? NO! Better suicide charge a single AA gun... before having the whole force encircled.

I sincerely hope we will not see this, pardon my french, BS in the next DLC.

[fluffybunnyuk]

My solution was to use an overstrength rapidfire tank with ignore entrenchment, and close defence hero. Support it with artillery, and use it to capture hexes (so it functions like a more mobile infantry unit). I gave up on the AI infantry and leave them to wander round doing not alot.

Mostly because sometimes i need to go slow to make captures n do other stuff. Other times i need to be on the run making up time. The AI just ticks along at a steady pace which doesnt match my tempo.

[Patrat]

It seems to me that the majority of people who are unhappy with the AI don`t seem to know how to properly control it or what to expect from it.

In order to help these players, perhaps someone could write up a guide to using the AI and get it stickied.

I myself am currently traveling and unfortunately don't have the time or access to the game.

[Kerensky]

It seems to me that the majority of people who are unhappy with the AI don`t seem to know how to properly control it or what to expect from it.

In order to help these players, perhaps someone could write up a guide to using the AI and get it stickied.

I myself am currently traveling and unfortunately don't have the time or access to the game.

You can bring the horse to water, but you can't make them drink. The guide exists, but tracking 'views' it is more than clear not everyone is reading them. That's what forum discussion is for though.

viewtopic.php?f=464&t=100028


How do I issues orders to the AI controlled Nationalist Spanish Infantry units in the Spanish Civil War Campaign?



The user interface function to interact with friendly AI units can be found in the bottom right corner of the screen as a small triangle.

The purpose of AI ally is to cooperate with it. While AI Infantry attack entrenched enemies and destroy AT guns, you can perform flanking attacks against support units such as artillery and air defense units. It's also mostly your job to deal with enemy counter attack, especially tanks and vehicles the Spanish infantry are not equipped to deal with. AI is happy to assault entrenched positions if you soften up those positions with artillery fire before the Spanish Nationalist turn. Artillery is very useful at suppressing enemies and destroying their entrenchment rating, and your AI allies will take full advantage of your artillery bombardments!

And if they are advancing too far ahead of your forces, changing their orders to hold position is a good wait to tell them to sit and wait, while you ready your own forces for the next offensive.

When issuing orders to the AI, note message prompt says lines such as:

"Spanish Nationalist units will attack the nearest hostile victory hex."

This should help explain why the AI goes where it goes. There is no 'free roam' mode, because many maps aren't meant to be completely overrun. Focusing AI on objectives keeps them easier to work with because you should have an idea of roughly what they are focused on.

[kondi754]

It seems to me that the majority of people who are unhappy with the AI don`t seem to know how to properly control it or what to expect from it.

In order to help these players, perhaps someone could write up a guide to using the AI and get it stickied.

I myself am currently traveling and unfortunately don't have the time or access to the game.

+1
I think players who are dissatisfied with AI are slaves to their own (PzC 1) habits
The game suggests a lot of unconventional solutions, designers leave quite a lot of lifebuoys on the map and in the equipment store

Example: at the beginning of one of the battles, I had little prestige after making the necessary reinforcements. I noticed that during the first round the weather will be bad, so everything I had to do, was to buy and improve ground units, because there were 2 enemy VPs near my lines. I spent all my funds in order to capture both during the first round, I earned a lot of prestige, so I immediately replenished my air and ground forces too so that during the second round I have all at my disposal.
There are many examples of such help from designers, they wink at us all the time during the game - "it seems that the situation is hopeless but wait, think and you will certainly find something that can help you"

This is only my humble opinion, but who am I - a beginner who only gives noob tips

EDIT. Thanks @Kerensky for your answer

[terminator]

It is impossible to see on the User Interface which function was chosen which often requires me to repeat the same order several times when I can’t remember my choice:

11pPxUo.jpg (21.18 KiB) Viewed 2580 times

[fluffybunnyuk]

I'm fairly sure after 15 completions on GM level with all commendations, and 100 hours of playing I have a basic idea how it works.

My problem is the control isnt fine grained enough. But then the type of granularity I would like is ahistorical, and means i may as well mod in the ability to buy CVT as core units. So i was never going to like this DLC.

Sometimes an AI unit will be sat where i want it on a hill. Wheres the option to tell that one to sit and the rest to move? Do i pick hold? in which case they all hold (not what i want), Do i pick Attack? (the unit vacates its strategic advantageous position (not what i want)), Do i pick defend? (not what i want either).

People buy games to explore their imagination, to have fun, to learn, to be challenged. Many reasons. Its what the main campaign does so well. Its like a canvas upon which you can imprint your imagination. The relative simplicity allows that to happen.
Adding complexity or an angle which may dent some peoples enjoyment/imagination will always bring discontent.
Theres a difficult job of balance. Many wargamers wish it was more complex, they come up with all kinds of rules/ideas to achieve that. Unfortunately it leaves behind those who are new to the genre/series. Its never going to result in all round happiness. Some things work, some dont. Plaudits have to be given for the ideas, the willingness to experiment by the developers.
But also there needs to be a critical eye, and an ability to reflect honestly on implemented ideas.

Suggesting that the only explanation is that we dont know how to control, or what to expect isnt conducive to that.

[tucsonbandit]

I don't mind the AI allies, I feel it simulates chaos of this battle, especially in this historical context where the German commanders were dealing with foreign troops (language barrier), trained with different tactics, and where communication equipment was new anyway and there was likely a lot of conflicting feelings with the troops even wanting to attack sometimes being that they might be attacking some city or town that had their own people in it. The entire situation was very chaotic, so having an unreliable AI ally does not bother me at all, especially since you can spend extra prestige to try and work around it. Its just part of the flavor IMO. People want to control every aspect of every unit, but no commander had that luxury. The player already has way more info and control than any commander would have had.

I would not be opposed to the idea of being able to give individual units their own commands though instead of giving the entire allied AI the same command. Even keep the same commands that already exist, just be able to give them out to each unit individually, and once a unit is given a command it could be given some sort of check mark depending on the command it was given. Perhaps this could even be worked into the game more by given the chance that the order is carried out be dependent on some sort of HQ/leader score that could be given to certain troops and maybe the score could be higher or lower the closer or further the unit that was given the order was from that leader...

You could keep the single order for the entire allied AI as an option so that if it was not needed you did not have to waste time giving individual orders out too.

[mr_clark]

Suggesting that the only explanation is that we dont know how to control, or what to expect isnt conducive to that.

And then linking a "guide" that explains exatly what is explained in the first mission. How does that change AI ignoring obvious flanking attempts by single units two hexes away just to advance it's maximum range to attack an out of touch support unit? And now my new favourite, just sitting ten tiles behind the frontline "defending" victory hexes that are in no need to be defended, even though the Attack order is set for every turn? I wish I'd have taken screenshots of this absolute BS.

I just needed to get that off my chest. As mentioned, I will not continue wasting my time with this.

[Kerensky]

And now my new favourite, just sitting ten tiles behind the frontline "defending" victory hexes that are in no need to be defended, even though the Attack order is set for every turn?

Defending VH in the rear is something that should be regularly practiced to prevent back capping from flanking attacks. This is so important, maybe people have repeatedly requested a special unit be created solely for this purpose (Garrison infantry).

That the AI handles this task for you automatically is a nice perk, because you no longer need to leave your precious CORE forces behind where they may, or may not, be needed.

[IttoOgami]

I think it works well with the AI allies, but I have one big qualm with them:

they are wasting all my prestige away. I would like it if there was at least some control enabled on when they reinforce. They do it at each and every opportunity, even when units don't have contact on the enemy and like 12 strength. I am not that far in the campaign, got badly mauled by the Madrid scenario but won it. But since I am struggling simply for the Spanish reinforcements. Whenever I take a city and get some, they immediately reinforce units. I would like if there is at least some option to prevent this. I would like there is some command, on when they can reinforce, or some cap (for example, that they don't do it below 200 prestige).

[Snake97644]

I understand the OPs frustration, I think we all would prefer to directly command our units, but I did not find the ai Nationalist to be a big problem. I did see some odd behavior among them in the Ebro, but otherwise it was manageable.
The reason I am saying this is I want to congratulate the developer for taking a chance and creating something new and unique. Most likely we won't see this function in the future, as well get our "good old German infantry" back in the next dlc. However I think we need to support the development efforts to take chances and try new things.
Lastly I think the ai order function did make the campaign more challenging, as I found the last Madrid scenario to be the easiest of the normal battles, coincidentally it was one I which could directly command the Spanish.

[Horseman]

I understand the OPs frustration, I think we all would prefer to directly command our units, but I did not find the ai Nationalist to be a big problem. I did see some odd behavior among them in the Ebro, but otherwise it was manageable.
The reason I am saying this is I want to congratulate the developer for taking a chance and creating something new and unique. Most likely we won't see this function in the future, as well get our "good old German infantry" back in the next dlc. However I think we need to support the development efforts to take chances and try new things.
Lastly I think the ai order function did make the campaign more challenging, as I found the last Madrid scenario to be the easiest of the normal battles, coincidentally it was one I which could directly command the Spanish.

I agree - something different and unique has been tried here and any developer should be commended for going that route.

As frustrating as the AI controlled forces are at times I very much enjoyed this feature. As much as we all like to think of ourselves as Alexanders, Hannibals and Rommels the truth is no general has ever enjoyed the command and control we have over our troops and its a breath of fresh air to have to contend with orders not being followed exactly as I envisioned them in my head!

If we see this feature again in future DLCs (no reason we shouldn't - plenty of times the Germans were not fighting alone, or imagine D-day with the allies etc.) what I would like to see is being able to issue separate orders to groups or areas...

What I mean is either have separate formations (so you might have 1st 2nd and 3rd divisions for example) who can all be given different orders. SO I might tell 1st to hold, 2nd to defend and 3rd to attack OR

Split the map into zones and allow each zone to have separate orders. SO I can tell the AI to hold my left flank but attack on my right for example.

[Patrat]

As frustrating as the AI controlled forces are at times I very much enjoyed this feature. As much as we all like to think of ourselves as Alexanders, Hannibals and Rommels the truth is no general has ever enjoyed the command and control we have over our troops and its a breath of fresh air to have to contend with orders not being followed exactly as I envisioned them in my head!

I don't know if anyone else remembers the old SPI games from the 70s, (Yeah I'm that old). Some of those games had a system that required you to roll a dice for certain units,, to see if you were even allowed to move that unit that turn. This was done to simulate command and control problems that in real life are always present on any battlefield.

I think the current system goes a long way towards simulating those command and control issues that the nationalists experienced in real life.

To be honest, it would be more realistic if every unit (including the German units) were subject to some level of command and control issues, but I can only imagine the howling that would ensue in this forum if players were not allowed perfect control over all their German units.

[Horseman]

As frustrating as the AI controlled forces are at times I very much enjoyed this feature. As much as we all like to think of ourselves as Alexanders, Hannibals and Rommels the truth is no general has ever enjoyed the command and control we have over our troops and its a breath of fresh air to have to contend with orders not being followed exactly as I envisioned them in my head!

I don't know if anyone else remembers the old SPI games from the 70s, (Yeah I'm that old). Some of those games had a system that required you to roll a dice for certain units,, to see if you were even allowed to move that unit that turn. This was done to simulate command and control problems that in real life are always present on any battlefield.

I think the current system goes a long way towards simulating those command and control issues that the nationalists experienced in real life.

To be honest, it would be more realistic if every unit (including the German units) were subject to some level of command and control issues, but I can only imagine the howling that would ensue in this forum if players were not allowed perfect control over all their German units.

I don't remember those games exactly (may have played them when I was younger) but a few games had something similar over the years.

I think I'd go crazy if all my units acted like the Nationalists but you're right - it would be more realistic if all I could give was general commands!

Imagine being a corps commander - all I could do is tell my divisional commanders what I wanted them to achieve and not how to achieve it!

[nexusno2000]

Much as I like the ally faction implementation (minus the bugs), I'm now at the point when it gets boring watching the AI play vs the AI.