How much food do I need to produce a new population?

[duirixuanyan]

It seems simple.
30
45
60
75
90
105
120
135
150

However, some regions say no.
225
263
255
301
351
202

I'm really confused.

[Surt]

Hmm, now you made me confused too!!!

Plain (heatwave)
Cyrenaica, pop 32, needs 1297 food, bonus 47% = 1150 discount (sum 2447)
Arid steppes:
Arsinoe, pop 28, needs 2839 food, bonus 33% = 1399 discount (sum 4238)
Syrtica, pop 28, needs 3204 food, bonus 58% = 4424 discount (sum 7628)

[Gray Fox]

Is this a reflection of regions in a province pooling their food? Supposedly, all the regions must grow to size X before any one grows to X+1.

[Swuul]

It depends on the terrain in the region and how many people you already have in the region. If you go above the hard-cap max for the region, it starts to become rather impossible to get more pop from surplus food. For example 2 POP in Plains vs 20 POP in Desert, the required food for extra pop is quite different

[Surt]

Arsinoe and Syrtica are same terrain, both coastal, Arsinoe is the regional capital though.

[Pocus]

starting population fixes the soft-limit of population growth. Past this soft limit, you get extra cost penalties to grow pop

[duirixuanyan]

starting population fixes the soft-limit of population growth. Past this soft limit, you get extra cost penalties to grow pop

What is the the soft-limit if the starting population is 1?

[n0b0dy007]

It's in Region.bsf/Region_Population_FoodNeedNextGrowth().
Basically:

Code: Select all

popCount = Region_Population_Count(regionID);
	// The function is exponential but we are not using a power function, too nerdy to explain in the manual?
	if (popCount >= 30)
	{
		coeff = (popCount - 13) * 4 // pop 30: x68 | pop 31: x72 | pop 32: x76
	}
	else if (popCount >= 20)
	{
		coeff = (popCount - 8) * 3 // pop 20: x36 | pop 21: x39 | pop 22: x42 |..| pop 29: x63
	}
	else if (popCount >= 10)
	{
		coeff = (popCount - 2) * 2 // pop 10: x16 | pop 11: x18 | pop 12: x20 |..| pop 19: x34
	}
	else
	{
		coeff = POP_NEED_FOOD_PERPOP; // 15
	}
	result = POP_BASE_NEED_FOOD + (coeff * popCount);

plus some other factors.

[duirixuanyan]

Thanks a lot.

Code: Select all

	// If beyond x time the initial number of inhabitants, penalize heavily
	count = GetNumPopulations(regionID) * 100 ;
	count = DivideAndRound(count, Max(POP_FOOD_POPULOUS_MINVAL, Region_Population_GetInitialInhabitants(regionID)));
	count -= POP_FOOD_POPULOUS_RATIOh;
	coeff = 100;
	while (count >= 0)
	{
		coeff += POP_FOOD_POPULOUS_COEFF;
		count -= 100;
	}
	result = DivideAndRound(result * coeff, 100); 

I don't understand this part. Could you explain it?
For example, popCount=53, result = POP_BASE_NEED_FOOD + (coeff * popCount)=8495.
result = DivideAndRound(result * coeff, 100)=72208, meaning coeff=8.5

I don't know what these numbers are.
POP_FOOD_POPULOUS_MINVAL,POP_FOOD_POPULOUS_RATIOh,POP_FOOD_POPULOUS_COEFF

[n0b0dy007]

I don't know what these numbers are.
POP_FOOD_POPULOUS_MINVAL,POP_FOOD_POPULOUS_RATIOh,POP_FOOD_POPULOUS_COEFF

These are constants defined in MapGlobals.bsf. A few have some commentary hints:

Code: Select all

// *** P_ ***
// __POPULATION
#define POP_REALNUMBERCOEFF 10000
#define POP_BASE_NEED_FOOD 15
#define POP_NEED_FOOD_PERPOP 15
#define POP_FOOD_USAGE_SLAVE 1
#define POP_FOOD_USAGE_OTHER 2
#define POP_HEALTH_MAX_BONUS 65 // no more than 65% discount in food need from health
#define POP_HEALTH_MAX_PENALTY -300 // no more than -300% penalty in food need from health
#define POP_KEEP_FOOD_PERC 15 // keep 15% of food on growth
#define POP_COEFF_GROWTH_WF 4 // slowdown coeff on pop growth for world faction (also used in infra bld)
#define POP_FOOD_POPULOUS_COEFF 50 // +50% food cost per pop ratio at populous and beyond
#define POP_FOOD_POPULOUS_RATIOh 300 // starting ratio where you get a penalty (in hundredth)
#define POP_FOOD_POPULOUS_MINVAL 3 // Min pop ever considered, preserve some back compatibility

I don't understand this part. Could you explain it?

I don't understand it, either, as the software's design description is not available. It's apparently an implementation of some game rule's logic.

Philippe, as the code's author, can probably explain his intent.

[Surt]

Nice, so most of the game is in the .bsf files!!!

[n0b0dy007]

Nice, so most of the game is in the .bsf files!!!

Pretty much. The rules/logic and UI code, anyway. The data live in the DATA directory's .csv files (generated from the .xlsx spreadsheets, per: viewtopic.php?f=562&t=99539).
The BSF files are text files containing CScript code, which is Slitherine's C-like dialect for their Archon engine (see: viewtopic.php?f=562&t=93020 and http://archonwiki.slitherine.com/index. ... es_Modding).
The Archon engine is 32-bit and single-threaded, so set expectations accordingly.

It also appears that the contents of Data/ATTRIBUTES.TXT (crucially, the main data structures and their attributes) serve as input to a process that generates the API found in AUTODOCS/BATTLESCRIPT.TXT, which serves as the foundational API between the game and the underlying Archon engine. The game's scripts apparently are run through the AUTODOCS/BATTLESCRIPT.BIN interpreter layer.
For some reason (probably a Development setting left on for the Release build ) the AUTODOCS files are re-generated every time the launcher starts the game.

The attached .zip file contains ARCHON.XML, a file that teaches Notepad++ (https://notepad-plus-plus.org/) about the CScript syntax (the semantics definition, alas, remains elusive).
Although, just setting Language to C works well enough.

[Pocus]

The idea is that past a certain initial value (thrice the initial population count (A) or 3 (B), whichever is the max), you get an increase of +50% to the found need (C)

(A) #define POP_FOOD_POPULOUS_RATIOh 300 // starting ratio where you get a penalty (in hundredth)
(B) #define POP_FOOD_POPULOUS_MINVAL 3 // Min pop ever considered, preserve some back compatibility
(C) #define POP_FOOD_POPULOUS_COEFF 50 // +50% food cost per pop ratio at populous and beyond