Charging into overlap

vsolfronk · Post by **vsolfronk** » Mon Apr 20, 2009 9:02 pm

Had a "situation" occur this weekend in the B'ham AL tournament. There was a BG of LH providing an overlap against an enemy Gaul BG. A Gallic Cav BG chargesthe LH (which flees out of contact). The Gallic Cav BG is now in an overlapp position against the enemy. Can it count as an overlap in the melee phase. In the rule book, it states that in order for a new BG to count as an overlap, it had to have moved exclusively to that position in the manuever phase, which is how I ruled. Is this a correct interpretation?

gozerius · Post by **gozerius** » Mon Apr 20, 2009 9:36 pm

There has been some debate about this, but my, admittedly worthless, opinion is that this is covered by the "Troops in contact, not yet commited to melee" rule. The troops don't qualify as in contact for the impact phase, but would be governed by the mechanisms of the rule on p 76-77. Note the example is not exclusive, so incidental side edge or corner to corner contact as a result of a charge should qualify. Note that they cannot turn because they have already moved in the Impact phase.

gozerius · Post by **gozerius** » Mon Apr 20, 2009 9:56 pm

Also, the charging BG must have moved its full charge move including VMD. It cannot move short to end in overlap.

gozerius · Post by **gozerius** » Tue Apr 21, 2009 2:24 am

In your situation you had a legal charge target, therefore the charge must be completed. As the LH evaded, and presumably, there were no other legal charge targets, the cav had to roll a VMD. If the initial charge path or subsequent wheel to pursue the LH would have allowed the cav to line up in perfect side to side contact with the Gallic BG which was overlapped by the LH, then as the cav pursued the LH, it would be in side to side edge contact with the BG fighting the other Gallic BG. If it still was in side edge contact with the enemy BG at the completion of its move, and it met the requirements for overlap, it would qualify as an overlap in the melee phase. The key sentence can be found on page 52 describing legal charge contacts. After describing what constitutes a "legal" charge contact, it goes on to say " Other bases of the charging battlegroup may contact the enemy in other ways, (e.g. only corner to corner), but will not be eligible to fight in the impact phase combat." If this key portion of the rules is properly implemented, the arguments regarding prohibiting contacts which fail to meet the "legal" definition lose their basis.

vsolfronk · Post by **vsolfronk** » Tue Apr 21, 2009 3:35 pm

The Gallic cav did finish it's VMD in side to side (but not a perfect overlap IIRC- it was a few mm forward). IIRC, in the overlap section, it states that you have to have moved in the manuever phase to be considered an overlap- I don't have my rulebook with me.

Of course, Ian's Gauls were in a great position and after this incident, it turned totally pants- both Gallic Cav lose the following combats and end up routing, along with a couple of Gallic generals biting the dust in the subsequent rout!!

shall · Post by **shall** » Tue Apr 21, 2009 4:04 pm

You count as an overlap if the charge gets you into an overlap position. You may fail to do so but often will end up there.

I am pretty sure it says you can only move to an overlap position in the movement phase not that you only count if you have done so. Oth3erwise if you were charged with a longer line your overlaps wouldn't count (having stood still and not moved at all).

Si

vsolfronk · Post by **vsolfronk** » Tue Apr 21, 2009 6:31 pm

p. 75: Moving Into Contact With Enemy Battle Groups:

"Battle groups can only move into contact with enemy battle groups in the manuever phase, but only to join an existing melee in an overlap position."

nikgaukroger · Post by **nikgaukroger** » Tue Apr 21, 2009 7:00 pm

Now go and insert the errata amendment for that sentance into your rules and see how it reads

Hint the first "only" moves right to the end of the sentance ...

vsolfronk · Post by **vsolfronk** » Tue Apr 21, 2009 7:22 pm

I see says the blind man....I didnt see it either in the errata. O if I am understanding this correctly, a BG can charge into an overlap position on an existing fight for combat in the melee phase (assuming it's charge target evaded or disappeared into thin air)?

nikgaukroger · Post by **nikgaukroger** » Tue Apr 21, 2009 7:31 pm

vsolfronk wrote:I see says the blind man....I didnt see it either in the errata.

Interestingly I think this was one of the earliest of the errata when it was spotted that an Osprey editor had moved the "only" in question because they felt it read as better English, alas it changed the meaning.

O if I am understanding this correctly, a BG can charge into an overlap position on an existing fight for combat in the melee phase (assuming it's charge target evaded or disappeared into thin air)?

Indeed.

shall · Post by **shall** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 4:35 am

vsolfronk wrote:
I see says the blind man....I didnt see it either in the errata.

Interestingly I think this was one of the earliest of the errata when it was spotted that an Osprey editor had moved the "only" in question because they felt it read as better English, alas it changed the meaning.

Yes indeed that is where it came from. Hm interesting - must give some further thought.

Si

shall · Post by **shall** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 6:28 am

I think its OK.

The "only move into contact with an enemy battlegroup in the mavouevre phase" is as againt "charge into contact which is in the impact phase.

For my part I am happy that you can be in a valid overlap position for MELEE phase by one of 3 routes:

1. Be there already - having been charged say
2. Arrived there by a charge that resulted in side edge contact once all VMDs were done
3. Moved to such a position in the manouvre phase

Si

madcam2us · Post by **madcam2us** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 11:35 am

shall wrote:I think its OK.

The "only move into contact with an enemy battlegroup in the mavouevre phase" is as againt "charge into contact which is in the impact phase.

For my part I am happy that you can be in a valid overlap position for MELEE phase by one of 3 routes:

1. Be there already - having been charged say
2. Arrived there by a charge that resulted in side edge contact once all VMDs were done
3. Moved to such a position in the manouvre phase

Si

Something like the above spelled out in the rules under the combat section would have been very useful...
Short, sweet and to the point.

Something perhaps for the next edition to remember...

Madcam.

shall · Post by **shall** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 1:15 pm

yup like fine wine we get better with age ... and drunk less often!

si