Quick Questions Thread on Rules

[kronenblatt]

What are these 9% and 45%, respectively, percentages of: Each army's total starting unit strength?

percentages.jpg (23.96 KiB) Viewed 3508 times

[Athos1660]

Manual, 9.4.1 (p. 49) about Current Score :"At the top left of the screen the % of each side’s units currently routed or dispersed is shown. The difference in rout % is also shown – in green if the side is winning, in red if it is losing."

Here :
- Gallic : 9% of units currently routed or dispersed
- Greek : 45% of units currently routed or dispersed
- The difference in rout % : 45-9 =36 (in green the Gallic are winning)

So you can see if the victory conditions are close. For example, the default ones :
- if 60% of its original troops are routed or dispersed,
- or if 40-59% are routed or dispersed and the enemy have loss at least 25% less (= difference in rout %).

[kronenblatt]

Manual, 9.4.1 (p. 49) about Current Score :"At the top left of the screen the % of each side’s units currently routed or dispersed is shown. The difference in rout % is also shown – in green if the side is winning, in red if it is losing."

Here :
- Gallic : 9% of units currently routed or dispersed
- Greek : 45% of units currently routed or dispersed
- The difference in rout % : 45-9 =36 (in green the Gallic are winning)

So you can see if the Default victory conditions are close. For example, the default ones :
- if 60% of its original troops are routed or dispersed,
- or if 40-59% are routed or dispersed and the enemy have loss at least 25% less.

Thanks, but I already knew that much and was after the percentage of what in more detail. So percentage is number of units at start? Not at all depending on each unit's starting strength? i.e., a routed light cavalry will count as much as a routed heavy infantry?

[Athos1660]

I guess it is (initial number of men in currently routed or dispersed units) / (initial number of men in the army).

So if there is only one unit of initially 242 light archers that is currently routed out of an army of 11 units gathering 4127 men at the start of the game, the % of currently routed or dispersed units is 242/4127 = (about) 6%, whatever the number of archers in this unit still alive.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

[Swuul]

I guess it is (initial number of men in currently routed or dispersed units) / (initial number of men in the army).

So if there is only one unit of initially 242 light archers that is currently routed out of an army of 11 units gathering 4127 men at the start of the game, the % of currently routed or dispersed units is 242/4127 = (about) 6%, whatever the number of archers in this unit still alive.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

I would like a clarification to that too. Because my thought has been that the percentage represents both unit size and cost of the unit compared to the total unit size of the starting army, not men as such. Routing off an elephant unit of 12 elephants has devastating effect on the percentage of a later republic roman army, while routing off a 33 point 480 men defensive spearmen from an early medieval british army can hardly be even noticed.

[Athos1660]

I am not that sure that on the battlefield, in the heat of the moment, the 'decision' by an army to break would take into account the quality/cost of its routed/dispersed units. The mass (in %) of the (absent) routed men may be more visible.

But maybe I am wrong and the % is calculated otherwise.

[rbodleyscott]

Thanks, but I already knew that much and was after the percentage of what in more detail. So percentage is number of units at start? Not at all depending on each unit's starting strength? i.e., a routed light cavalry will count as much as a routed heavy infantry?

Code: Select all

// Returns % of army unrouted, based on base UnitSize with mounted troops counting 50% more proportionately.
FUNCTION PercentRemaining(side)
{
	int i;
	int id;
	int count;
	int total;
	int ret;
	int originalCount;
	int increment;

	originalCount = 0;
	count = 0;
	total = GetUnitCount(side);
	for(i=0; i<total; i++)
	{
		id = GetUnitID(side, i);
		if (id != -1)
			{
				if (IsUnitSquadType(id, "Scythed_Chariots") == 0) // Ignore scythed chariots, they are expendable.
					{

//						increment = GetBaseAttrib(id, "UnitSize");
						increment = GetAttrib(id, "UnitSize"); // v1.2.0 change - to allow for units starting battle damaged

						if ((IsMounted(id) == 1) || (IsUnitSquadType(id, "Elephants") == 1))
							{
								increment *= 3;
							}
						else
							{
								increment *= 2;
							}

						originalCount += increment;
						
						if (GetAttrib(id, "EvadedOffMap") == 1) // Unit is currently off map after evading off
							{
								increment /= 2;
							}

						if (GetAttrib(id, "MoraleState") < 3) // Not routed or destroyed
							{
								count += increment;
							}
					}
			}
	}

	Log("Side. Original units. Surviving units.", side, originalCount, count);

	ret = count * 100;
	ret /= originalCount;

	return ret;
}

So, it is based on the "UnitSize" attribute (NOT the number of men directly, and NOT the cost of the unit) with a +50% adjustment for elephants and mounted troops.

You can see the "UnitSize" values in the Squads file.

[Athos1660]

Thanks for the info.

[kronenblatt]

Can a general be killed from missile fire? If yes, what determines the probability of that occurring?

[Karvon]

No, he can't.

[rbodleyscott]

Can a general be killed from missile fire? If yes, what determines the probability of that occurring?

No, because it would be too easy to concentrate shooting on the enemy general's unit - easier than in real life, and it isn't recorded as a common historical tactic.

[kronenblatt]

No, he can't.

Can a general be killed from missile fire? If yes, what determines the probability of that occurring?

No, because it would be too easy to concentrate shooting on the enemy general's unit - easier than in real life, and it isn't recorded as a common historical tactic.

Thanks guys! Reasoning makes full sense (and only general I'm aware of is poor old Harold Godwinson). I hadn't actually seen any of this in my games, but suddenly became aware of it and wanted to make sure that there wasn't any rule that I didn't know of and that I'd only been lucky/unlucky.

[SnuggleBunnies]

There are also other theories as to Harold's death - another possibility being a chosen hit squad of Norman horsemen targeting him and hacking him down, with the arrow being a later addition. Not that Wikipedia is necessarily always the greatest source, but a quick summary - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harold_Godwinson#Death

[kronenblatt]

There are also other theories as to Harold's death - another possibility being a chosen hit squad of Norman horsemen targeting him and hacking him down, with the arrow being a later addition. Not that Wikipedia is necessarily always the greatest source, but a quick summary - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harold_Godwinson#Death

Probably the Norman hitmen afterwards placed an arrow in his eye in order to confuse Anglo-Saxon police detectives as well as future historians and FoG2 players....! (Currently reading heavily about the Olof Palme assassination so I'm very much into conspiracy theories.)

[DanZanzibar]

Andreas - you should add a thread from the Tech Support part of the forum by warg1 - he askes a few pointed questions about CT's and RBS answers them all.

Here it is:

viewtopic.php?f=488&t=99597

By the way, I think it would be best to just use this thread to point to other posts on rules instead of asking questions here. It would keep it cleaner and all the info on rules would be in the links you are updating in the original post.

[kronenblatt]

Andreas - you should add a thread from the Tech Support part of the forum by warg1 - he askes a few pointed questions about CT's and RBS answers them all.

Here it is:
viewtopic.php?f=488&t=99597

Thanks Zan! I've updated the first post of this thread with a link to the other thread.

By the way, I think it would be best to just use this thread to point to other posts on rules instead of asking questions here. It would keep it cleaner and all the info on rules would be in the links you are updating in the original post.

When it comes to simple simple questions that can be answered with a yes, a no or maximum a couple of sentences, then I think it's better to still post them here where they can more easily be found. Because otherwise it requires that someone (me ) keeps updating the first post with the links (which I happily aim to do whenever the question can be of general interest, but I may miss some or even many). Plus that one separate thread for each very simple yes/no question asked will create so many threads and make them all almost impossible to find. Then I believe it's better, if searching for answers, to go to this thread directly and scan through the posts in it that have not already been read.

So keep asking closed-end questions in this thread.

[DanZanzibar]

Fair enough.

[kronenblatt]

In ArmyList.xlsx, the army list's units are specified with a MIN and a MAX, setting out "total (fixed + selection) quantity for 2000 point army".

1. How is that then adjusted and rounded for any other point of army, say 1200 point army: simply proportionally (multiplying each number with e.g. 1200/2000)?
2. And how then rounded to integer values; always down, always up, or to nearest integer? (With any floors (of say 1)?)

[rbodleyscott]

In ArmyList.xlsx, the army list's units are specified with a MIN and a MAX, setting out "total (fixed + selection) quantity for 2000 point army".

1. How is that then adjusted and rounded for any other point of army, say 1200 point army: simply proportionally (multiplying each number with e.g. 1200/2000)?

This.

2. And how then rounded to integer values; always down, always up, or to nearest integer?

To nearest integer.

(With any floors (of say 1)?)

Floor of 1, with floor of 2 for core types in ally contingents.

Code: Select all

				StartWorkString(1);
				PrintWorkStringLiteral("MIN_", 1);
				PrintWorkStringInt(num, 1);
				min = FromFileGetValue(file, army, GetWorkString(1));
				min = ((min * points) + 1000) / 2000; // scale based on 2000 point army

				StartWorkString(1);
				PrintWorkStringLiteral("MAX_", 1);
				PrintWorkStringInt(num, 1);
				max = FromFileGetValue(file, army, GetWorkString(1));
				
				unadjustedMax = max; // v1.5.10 WatG addition	
				
				if (max > 0)
				{
					max = ((max * points) + 1000) / 2000 ; // scale based on 2000 point army

					// v1.5.10 WatG addition - to allow more than one unit of core types if their overall numbers in the allied list are not huge
					if (ally == 1)
						{
							if (max < 2)
								{
									max = (((unadjustedMax * points * 190) / 100) + 1000) / 2000;
									if (max > 2)
										{
											max = 2;
										}
								}
						}
					// End v1.5.10 WatG addition							
					
					if (max < min)
					{
						max = min;
					}
					if (max < 1)
					{
						max = 1;
					}
				}

[kronenblatt]

Do Elephants cause any Elephant-unique damage to nearby units (whether enemy or friendly) when they break and subsequently rout? Or is that reflected by the cohesion tests two squares wide upon the Elephants breaking?