Experimenting

[Kerensky]

What do you think is a good amount of captured stock to receive of aircraft?

Too little (10 or 20) and you basically field a temporary unit once and then run out of spare parts.
Too much, and it loses meaning as a unit of limited supply that you cannot produce because you captured it. And people can and will start fielding multiple units worth of the unit, which is going to make the problem of running out of parts happen even faster.

And since aircraft are uncapturable as a mechanic and can only be gifted via scripts such as through Bonus Objective rewards...

What do you think is a good amount of captured stock to receive of aircraft?

[Horseman]

I'm not sure it's possible.....

But maybe 15 at the "capture" that gives you the parts for 1 maybe 2 scenarios. After that could the script then award a small amount per scenario for X number of scenarios? To simulate captures planes/parts from other sources

Or maybe have another bonus objective later on to get more.

It's a tricky balance. To little and they'd be useless and to many and you may as well ignotr the limit!

[KesaAnna]

Ugh ! A tough one !

I would say 75 . That way you can field two units , ( at the default 20 per unit. ) Get some decent use out of them , but not forever .

Or maybe one unit , for an incrementally longer period of time.

Funny thing , I swear it's true , you used the only aircraft as your example I have ever coveted ! *

American and British aircraft I hate so much I scorn them. And the rest just don't appeal.

( * I would really love to have the Breda Ba 65 , and the Savoia-Marchetti.SM 79 . But , err , the game doesn't have a mechanic for stealing or borrowing from your own allies . )

[Horseman]

Ugh ! A tough one !

I would say 75 . That way you can field two units , ( at the default 20 per unit. ) Get some decent use out of them , but not forever .

Or maybe one unit , for an incrementally longer period of time.

Funny thing , I swear it's true , you used the only aircraft as your example I have ever coveted ! *

American and British aircraft I hate so much I scorn them. And the rest just don't appeal.

( * I would really love to have the Breda Ba 65 , and the Savoia-Marchetti.SM 79 . But , err , the game doesn't have a mechanic for stealing or borrowing from your own allies . )

Default 20 strength per unit?

[KesaAnna]

Default 20 strength per unit?

maybe it's 10 strength ??

I never use over-strength ??

I must confess , I haven't played the game in a week . Too busy working on PC 2 fan art. I'm relying on memory.

[Horseman]

Default 20 strength per unit?

maybe it's 10 strength ??

I never use over-strength ??

I must confess , I haven't played the game in a week . Too busy working on PC 2 fan art. I'm relying on memory.

Default for air units is 10

[Tassadar]

I see four main alternatives here .

1. 15 and the option to capture once more more later as a similar reward. Could encourage meeting that extra objective to continue using the unit.
2. 20, no strings attached. An option to use these in a scenario or two, but not as a primary unit, just extra flavor option or extra air power if really required.
3. 25-30 for the entire campaign, but scripted in a way so you can never field more than one unit.
4. Field these as auxiliary units in a future scenario forvided the capture requirement is met? That seems to have the smalles balance issue impact on the game and still allows to use something different.


Side question - does the He 51 have a biplane model for the actual release? Just curious.

[PoorOldSpike]

I would really love to have the Breda Ba 65 , and the Savoia-Marchetti.SM 79 . But , err , the game doesn't have a mechanic for stealing or borrowing from your own allies..

Speaking of Italian planes in PC2, that definitely doesn't look like a Fiat G.50 to me, or am I wrong?




Below- a Fiat G.50


http://www.mission4today.com/index.php? ... 15&start=0

[fluffybunnyuk]

Tassadar has some excellent options.
I think the opportunity should be there to capture units but with the caveat that you can only field one of each type. Or if you can field 2 then there should be a 1.5X multiplier to slot size for the 2nd unit, and a 2X multiplier for the 3rd unit.
Penalizing the slots soon makes fielding more than one unit prohibitive.
Personally i think i'd rather use the Bf109 same range , extra air power, extra defense, one more slot.
I'd happily dump a 3 slot recon for a 2 slot motorbike in exchange to get the Bf109. Dont see a use for the I-16 unless its as a spare fighter to finish off crippled units. Not sure its worth 2 slots for that feature.

I forgot the initiative bonus too. I love taking the initiative trait, for the extra damage before return fire. If you can cripple the enemy by better initiative striking first they dont tend to hit back very hard.
So maybe an option to sell junk for prestige maybe at a 50% discount would be nice. I could field more Bf109s then.

[wecker]

Hi,
I would also like to support the statement of Tassadar.
Give us 20 but only one unit per scenario.
Give us an option to "liberate" more airplanes if we succeed in special objectives - especially liberating airfields.

[Rifraff]

Unless they are a free corp slot... They would have to be top of the range late war stuff to spend resources on.. Or at least be able to upgraded to your home nations units

[Retributarr]

Quote: by "Rifraff": » Sat Jun 20, 2020 9:31 pm
"Unless they are a free corp slot... They would have to be top of the range late war stuff to spend resources on.. Or at least be able to upgraded to your home nations units"

[Ret:] I agree with "Rifraff"... why should I sacrifice my precious 'Core-Slots'... for '2nd-Rate'-Substitutions?. These 'Captured-Units' would really have to have "some worth-while advantage" to benefit my force-assemblage in order for me to take the decision to acquire it!,

[adiekmann]

I think whatever the minimal number for that unit is, so probably 10 for aircraft. However, personally, I would not get one unless there was at least 15 units available (5 extra for replacements). Otherwise you are stuck with an under powered unit for the rest of the scenario. I take the same approach with prototypes.

Limiting the number of a specific type of captured unit only makes sense if the potential to capture tons of them is available. It seems rather silly if you have several units of x-Republican aircraft, for example. It also would make it feel less special. So yes, limit one of each type.

[dalfrede]

Unless they are a free corp slot... They would have to be top of the range late war stuff to spend resources on.. Or at least be able to upgraded to your home nations units

You can always upgrade your captured units to home nation units.
The only units that wouldn't upgrade are infantry, and you can't capture infantry.
The 'best' captured units are early war units that are better than your otherwise available units.

In PzC1 GC I bought 2 Pz the entire campaign. The rest were either 'gifted', or 'captured' bonus units.
I expect the new AO may work the similarly.

[DarkBlueInk]

I think 20 if it is a one-time event. Maybe even 17-18. 15 is not enough because you then run the risk of fielding an understrength unit for the remainder of the scenario. I am intrigued by the idea of getting 15 initially and then having opportunities to capture more at a later time (probably the next scenario or you risk having an obsolete unit that you would never deploy).

Speaking of Italian planes in PC2, that definitely doesn't look like a Fiat G.50 to me, or am I wrong?

The viewing angle is different, and obviously the color, but I think the main difference I see is more greenhouse (glass) in the PC2 unit than in the drawings. I'm no expect on that particular aircraft, but planes do/did have some variations that could explain that difference. Otherwise, I think it looks to be the same.

[Matyna]

I think 20 if it is a one-time event. Maybe even 17-18. 15 is not enough because you then run the risk of fielding an understrength unit for the remainder of the scenario. I am intrigued by the idea of getting 15 initially and then having opportunities to capture more at a later time (probably the next scenario or you risk having an obsolete unit that you would never deploy).

Speaking of Italian planes in PC2, that definitely doesn't look like a Fiat G.50 to me, or am I wrong?

The viewing angle is different, and obviously the color, but I think the main difference I see is more greenhouse (glass) in the PC2 unit than in the drawings. I'm no expect on that particular aircraft, but planes do/did have some variations that could explain that difference. Otherwise, I think it looks to be the same.

G.50 curently use Re.2000 model. It is not only plane in PC2 that have wrong model right now. But they work on new models! In future we will even see new planes that are not in game yet with more new campaigns.

[fluffybunnyuk]

I suppose you could treat it as a supply issue. Get 15 captured units initially, so people can field overstrength if they want.
Then according to the level offer extra units every so many turns. So on top level it might be an extra unit every 10 turns. On the easy level every 5 turns.
That would give easy level players an extra 5 units over the course of the scenario if its 25 turns. Generalissimus players would only get an extra 2...

[Cortilein]

Speaking of Italian planes in PC2

On that note, shouldn't the Caproni Ca.331 "Raffica" be a recon plane and/or light tactical bomber rather than a fighter?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caproni_Ca.331

[calmhatchery]

very nice

[elven]

I think 20 is reasonable so that you could take some damage and use it for a scenario or two still. I like the idea that you could have the ability to meet an extra objective later to gain more. i.e. overrun an airfield and capture a stockpile of parts and equipment to use to repair and keep your captured equipment flying.