Terrain Picking

[david53]

I should know this but.............

Say I win the initiative and chose Hilly

I pick a brush as compulsory and three gentle hills.

Page 140 says hills can be covered by either broken brush ect.

So am I allowed to pick three Brush to go on the hills.

Giving me 4 normal choices and the 3 brush to go on the hills.

Have I got this right.

Dave

[marioslaz]

No. Brushes on hill count toward the maximum and for hill type maximum is 3 (one of which is compulsory). So, if you choose a brush as compulsory, you can put 2 other brushes only over hills. I don't know if you can consider one of the brush over hills as the fulfilment of compulsory brush.

[Blathergut]

put a plantation on the third hill

[petedalby]

Have I got this right.

I think you have Dave.

See page 140.

So you choose the compulsory brush - and combine it with a gentle hill. You then pick the other 2 brush and combine those with the remaining 2 gentle hills. All the brush and gentle hills have now been picked. You still have 2 picks left.

Your opponent gets the compulsory steep hill and whatever else you may have left unpicked.

Pete

[marioslaz]

Have I got this right.

I think you have Dave.

See page 140.

So you choose the compulsory brush - and combine it with a gentle hill. You then pick the other 2 brush and combine those with the remaining 2 gentle hills. All the brush and gentle hills have now been picked. You still have 2 picks left.

Your opponent gets the compulsory steep hill and whatever else you may have left unpicked.

Pete

Sorry if I insist, but the procedure of original post was wrong, since he got 4 brushes when the maximum is 3. Also your procedure is not right, even if the result is ok. In fact, you cannot combine a brush, or whatever, with an hill, but it's the opposite; this is not a form only issue, because if you look at page 140, as you correctly indicated, you can notice a covered hill can be choose as compulsory terrain only under some circumstances. Just as example, in hilly territory you cannot choose an hill covered by a forest, since both are not compulsory. So the right procedure is: you choose a gentle hill with brush (because brush is compulsory an the you can), your opponent choose steep hill (the other compulsory) then you choose other 2 hill, both covered with a brush. This let you another choice, if you want. In original post the procedure ended with 3 gentle hills covered by brush plus another brush, for a total of 4 brushes which are more of maximum permitted.

[Aetius]

Blimey ... all very complicated!
So how does all this work if all your compulsories are hills (Mountainous for example)?

I win the initiative & get to choose Mountainous terrain.

I pick a double Steeple Hill as my Core Terrain (correct ? - can I do this ? - does this count as 1 or 2 terrain choices?) - could I add a single normal terrain piece of Brush or even a double terrain piece of Brush (as I have 2 in the list) on top of this (me thinks probably not as the Brush is not compulsory - but it's worth a try).

Does my opponent has free choice from my list now (as I've taken both the compulsory Steep Hill pieces?) or does he have to pick another Steep Hill (as there are 4 in the list)?

I then pick another Steep Hill and cover it with a Forest, and is this one terrain choice or two?

I then pick both Impassable terrain features (NB: do these block vision & shooting? I use 'b' big pieces of rocky ground for mine - seems a bit odd if you can see over/through them - but no doubt somebody smart will mention the word 'lakes'.

Anyway - so now by my reckoning I've still got one other piece of terrain to choose from?

If my opponent didn't pick the other Steep Hill, I can now pick it and cover it with a Plantation or the other bit of Brush? (assuming he didn't pick any of these & I cannot put a double bit of Brush on my initial double Steep Hill). I am assuming I cannot put a Marsh on my Steep Hill - maybe not so silly as it sounds geographically (or is it topographically) but I thought I'd ask!

So in effect, if I'm correct in my thinking (& please stop me here as it's all just too exciting!) I have actually chosen: all 4 Steep Hills (a double covered with double brush,) a single covered with Forest and another single covered with Plantation; and 2 pieces of single Impassable terrain? So I've used up:
a) 4 steep hills
b) 2 brush
c) a forest
d) a plantation
e) 2 impassables
- leaving just a gully and marsh for my opponent.

Surely I am going horribly wrong here somewhere! But if I can do it, it sounds good to me

Cheers
Mark
PS: not such great terrain for a Swiss army to fight in I know ... but of course that begs the question as to why Swiss Halberdiers have to be HF in the lists (surely an either or HF/MF option is more realistic and would avoid a lot of rebasing?)

[nikgaukroger]

PS: not such great terrain for a Swiss army to fight in I know ... but of course that begs the question as to why Swiss Halberdiers have to be HF in the lists (surely an either or HF/MF option is more realistic and would avoid a lot of rebasing?)

No rebasing needed - all the Halbardiers in the list are the same so there would be no confusion (assuming they aren't based in some bizzare fashion).

[petedalby]

Well here goes again - but others may disagree!

I pick a double Steeple Hill as my Core Terrain (correct ? - can I do this ? - does this count as 1 or 2 terrain choices?) - could I add a single normal terrain piece of Brush or even a double terrain piece of Brush (as I have 2 in the list) on top of this (me thinks probably not as the Brush is not compulsory - but it's worth a try).

Yes - a compulsory Steep Hill can be a large feature (cos it's compulsory!) and it only counts as 1 pick (cos it's compulsory!) And yes - you can chosse it as a covered Steep Hill - and the cover doesn't count as a pick either!! But yes - it would count as having used both pieces of brush.

Does my opponent has free choice from my list now (as I've taken both the compulsory Steep Hill pieces?) or does he have to pick another Steep Hill (as there are 4 in the list)?

Your opponent must choose the other compulsory terrain piece in the Mountains which in this case is a Steep Hill.

I then pick another Steep Hill and cover it with a Forest, and is this one terrain choice or two?

Just the one pick assuming it is of normal size.

I then pick both Impassable terrain features (NB: do these block vision & shooting? I use 'b' big pieces of rocky ground for mine - seems a bit odd if you can see over/through them - but no doubt somebody smart will mention the word 'lakes'.

Anyway - so now by my reckoning I've still got one other piece of terrain to choose from?

Yes - still one pick left. In games I've played the placing player has defined Impassable as either a Mountain or a lake - so one blocks - one doesn't. In most cases it is immaterial since only artillery can shoot over something 6 MU wide.

If my opponent didn't pick the other Steep Hill, I can now pick it and cover it with a Plantation or the other bit of Brush?

You've used both Brush so it would have to be the plantation.

I am assuming I cannot put a Marsh on my Steep Hill - maybe not so silly as it sounds geographically (or is it topographically) but I thought I'd ask!

You are correct - only those items listed on P140 can be combined with a hill.

So in effect, if I'm correct in my thinking (& please stop me here as it's all just too exciting!) I have actually chosen: all 4 Steep Hills (a double covered with double brush,) a single covered with Forest and another single covered with Plantation; and 2 pieces of single Impassable terrain? So I've used up:
a) 4 steep hills
b) 2 brush
c) a forest
d) a plantation
e) 2 impassables
- leaving just a gully and marsh for my opponent.

Almost right. Your compulsory Steep Hill only counted as one. So your opponent still has 1 left in addition to their own compulsory Steep Hill.

Enjoy!!

Pete

[petedalby]

Sorry if I insist, but the procedure of original post was wrong, since he got 4 brushes when the maximum is 3. Also your procedure is not right, even if the result is ok. In fact, you cannot combine a brush, or whatever, with an hill, but it's the opposite; this is not a form only issue, because if you look at page 140, as you correctly indicated, you can notice a covered hill can be choose as compulsory terrain only under some circumstances. Just as example, in hilly territory you cannot choose an hill covered by a forest, since both are not compulsory. So the right procedure is: you choose a gentle hill with brush (because brush is compulsory an the you can), your opponent choose steep hill (the other compulsory) then you choose other 2 hill, both covered with a brush. This let you another choice, if you want. In original post the procedure ended with 3 gentle hills covered by brush plus another brush, for a total of 4 brushes which are more of maximum permitted.

Insist away Mario.

But P140:

" A covered hill can be chosen as a compulsory piece only if either of the following apply:

Hills are compulsory

or

Hills are permitted and the covering is compulsory and of at least normal size."

So I think my original answer was correct?

Pete

[david53]

Have I got this right.

I think you have Dave.

See page 140.

So you choose the compulsory brush - and combine it with a gentle hill. You then pick the other 2 brush and combine those with the remaining 2 gentle hills. All the brush and gentle hills have now been picked. You still have 2 picks left.

Your opponent gets the compulsory steep hill and whatever else you may have left unpicked.

Pete

Thanks for that you would have thought I'd have known that but out of all the games since i started in August last year it only happened to me last Monday when my oppisite number did something simular.....

I think I may have got things muddled in my example.

All i ment was could I stick things on gentle hills ie Brush, Broken village and not count them out of my terrian picks if i had said this maybe I would'nt have confused people.
Dave

[marioslaz]

So I think my original answer was correct?

Yes, your original answer was correct, for the part where you exposed how to do the pick, but you were wrong when you declared the original post was right, because in original post the final pick was illegal. In other words, you said an illegal pick was correct (wrong affirmation) but then you exposed a correct procedure.

[petedalby]

Yes, your original answer was correct,

Great! Thanks Mario.

Pete

[philqw78]

I think you were both arguing about different things. Just wanted to see who got upset first

[marioslaz]

I think you were both arguing about different things. Just wanted to see who got upset first

Upset? Why?