Front & Rear ?

[Aetius]

We had a situation in a recent game, where we had 2 units of Superior Cataphracts, both reduced to 50% strength (so 2 bases in each battle group), neither suffering fragmentation etc and both with TC's fighting in their front rank, already in an existing melee.
One unit was then hit in the rear by a battle group of 4 LH Average, Bow (no sword).

My questions are:

1). do we fight an impact phase for the LH & if so how many CATs (hit in rear) fight (I probably think there is no impact ... but might be wrong)

2). in the melee phase who fights who?
Do the (now fragmented) Cats that have been hit in the rear fight throw 1 or 2 dice and if 1 dice who does it apply against (the LH or opposing CATs)?

3). in both the impact & the melee does the TC effect all the combat dice (assuming more than 1 dice is thrown), as he's always fighting in the 'front rank' as there is only 1 rank?

(note to self ... don't get into these sorts of situations too often!)

Mark

[philqw78]

IIRC

We had a situation in a recent game, where we had 2 units of Superior Cataphracts, both reduced to 50% strength (so 2 bases in each battle group), neither suffering fragmentation etc and both with TC's fighting in their front rank, already in an existing melee.
One unit was then hit in the rear by a battle group of 4 LH Average, Bow (no sword).

My questions are:

1). do we fight an impact phase for the LH & if so how many CATs (hit in rear) fight (I probably think there is no impact ... but might be wrong)

All those hit in rear fight in impact. So 4 dice for the Cats at -- v's 2 for the LH at ++

2). in the melee phase who fights who?
Do the (now fragmented) Cats that have been hit in the rear fight throw 1 or 2 dice and if 1 dice who does it apply against (the LH or opposing CATs)?

If the cats dropped to fragmented they woul only get 1 dice, 1 per base losing one per 2. If the cats turned anyone after the impact, I believe they must turn at least one to face the LH, they can then choose who to roll the dice against. I would chooses the LH as it will be at +, better armour and swords but fighting in 2 directions.

3). in both the impact & the melee does the TC effect all the combat dice (assuming more than 1 dice is thrown), as he's always fighting in the 'front rank' as there is only 1 rank?

Generals affect all combat dice thrown by a single BG

Remember that the cats would not have dropped to disrupted by the charge in the rear, as they were hit by skirmishers and are Battle troops. So they would have to be very unlucky to drop to fragged by the melee phase

[Aetius]

Many thanks - that makes a lot of sense & stops LH piling into the back of 'heavier' melees with impunity.

As we didn't play an impact phase (our mistake), I subsequently threw really badly in the combined melee phase and that dropped me a cohesion level, which the enemy CATS then capitaized on.

You 'live n learn'
Cheers
Mark

[sagji]

We had a situation in a recent game, where we had 2 units of Superior Cataphracts, both reduced to 50% strength (so 2 bases in each battle group), neither suffering fragmentation etc and both with TC's fighting in their front rank, already in an existing melee.
One unit was then hit in the rear by a battle group of 4 LH Average, Bow (no sword).

My questions are:

1). do we fight an impact phase for the LH & if so how many CATs (hit in rear) fight (I probably think there is no impact ... but might be wrong)

Assuming you are now 1 deep in the 2 BGs. 1 base in the contacted BG turns. As all the bases contacted are already in frontal contact only 1 base turns (p56)
You do fight an impact combat. All bases that have contacted the enemy with their front edge, or front corner, can fight, in this case 2. All bases that have been so contacted fight - even if they are unable to turn because they are already in melee, in this case 2. So the CATs get 4 dice at --, and the LH 2 dice at ++.

2). in the melee phase who fights who?

Everybody fights who their front edge is in contact with.

Do the (now fragmented) Cats that have been hit in the rear fight throw 1 or 2 dice and if 1 dice who does it apply against (the LH or opposing CATs)?

1 Dice - you halve before allocating. Owner's choice.

But how did they become fragmented? You described them as non-fragmented at the start, being hit in the rear by skirmishers doesn't drop them, and you said you didn't think there was an impact combat.

3). in both the impact & the melee does the TC effect all the combat dice (assuming more than 1 dice is thrown), as he's always fighting in the 'front rank' as there is only 1 rank?

As the commander is "in the front rank" he effects all close combat rolls for the BG - even if there are multiple front ranks, such as pike 4 ranks deep hit on the rear.

(note to self ... don't get into these sorts of situations too often!)

Mark

[Aetius]

Thanks - we made a mistake in having the CATS when hit in the rear drop a cohesion level.

It seems a sensible outcome as described.

Cheers
Mark