Weekly Unit Discussion Thread

[Danger]

I've been playing one of the competitor of Panzer Corps lately and they introduce the 88mm halftrack, the bunkerflak pretty early on, in the early campaign to make do for the lack of punch of German armor during the Battle of France. There were just enough produced to be a prototype unit. It's quite similar to 8.8 cm FlaK 37 (Sfl.) already present in the game but available only much later. At least I think they are different.

In the never-made it past the drawing board, the VK1602 Leopard is an obvious pick for a light recon tank and in the main tank lists, the Panther II or an E-50.
For the Soviet side, I'd say the T-44 and even maybe the T-54 could make it into the game, since the IS-3's already in. I mean World of Tanks & War Thunder can definitely be a source of inspiration.

[Tassadar]

A few things that came to my mind are:

General units:

• Armoured trains

• River boats

Fighters:

• Heinkel He 112 (as prototype and also for Romanian and maybe Hungarian armies)

• Heinkel He 219 (overall introducing night fighters that could be able to operate normally in cloudy weather)

• Messershmitt P1101 (for fictional path last scenarios)

Recon:

• Focke-Wulf Fw 189

Tactical Bomber:

• Mistel aircraft (3A-S3A or other)

Strategic Bomber:

• Focke-Wulf Fw 200 (for sea scenarios, high naval attack)

• Junkers Ju 86 (also for Hungarian army)

In general, I feel a lot of units could benefit from an update to the prototype mechanic. When a fun prototype is introduced, the player could pay a certain amount of prestige to essentialy un-prototype it and allow for normal replacements. Such a unit would be limited to 1 stack and reflect the infuence of a high ranking general persuading the industry to produce something he needs on the front. Aside form the obvious fun factor this would allow to resolve in an elegant way any problems of intrducing units such as He 112 that never qute made it or were produced in minimal numbers.

[Kerensky]

While I embraced the limited quantity captured units mechanic, I'm less enthusiastic about prototypes because as you pointed out, you can't un-prototype it. And without a steady income of new parts, the unit can very quickly become defunct.

Spanish Civil War encourages a lot of capturing and fielding of enemy equipment. It's the only way to acquire a non-MG only tank, or an artillery piece larger than 105mm. There are new scripts to further support stockpiles of enemy equipment, it will be possibly to directly inject equipment into the player's captured pool via trigger and lua scripts. Prototypes I transferred to the new bonus objective system. When you get them, you get a permanent non limited parts version. But if the whole unit is destroyed, it's irreplaceable. This, plus needing to go above and beyond with victory conditions to earn points to acquire such rewards, will hopefully prove a more popular system.

We'll see soon enough.

[voxr]

A few things that came to my mind are:

General units:

• Armoured trains

• River boats

Fighters:

• Heinkel He 112 (as prototype and also for Romanian and maybe Hungarian armies)

• Heinkel He 219 (overall introducing night fighters that could be able to operate normally in cloudy weather)

• Messershmitt P1101 (for fictional path last scenarios)

Recon:

• Focke-Wulf Fw 189

Tactical Bomber:

• Mistel aircraft (3A-S3A or other)

Strategic Bomber:

• Focke-Wulf Fw 200 (for sea scenarios, high naval attack)

• Junkers Ju 86 (also for Hungarian army)

In general, I feel a lot of units could benefit from an update to the prototype mechanic. When a fun prototype is introduced, the player could pay a certain amount of prestige to essentialy un-prototype it and allow for normal replacements. Such a unit would be limited to 1 stack and reflect the infuence of a high ranking general persuading the industry to produce something he needs on the front. Aside form the obvious fun factor this would allow to resolve in an elegant way any problems of intrducing units such as He 112 that never qute made it or were produced in minimal numbers.

Can't believe I forgot about the Fw 200. One of my favourite designs due to its sleek and sexy lines.

[Tassadar]

Prototypes I transferred to the new bonus objective system. When you get them, you get a permanent non limited parts version. But if the whole unit is destroyed, it's irreplaceable. This, plus needing to go above and beyond with victory conditions to earn points to acquire such rewards, will hopefully prove a more popular system.

We'll see soon enough.

On paper that seems perfect. I'm perfectly fine losing the prototype due to bad luck or a play mistake, but with some types of units naturally incuring more losses than others, the previous system was too strict. More realistic, sure, but not as interesting to use from a gameplay persepctive.

[PoorOldSpike]

Jap fighter pilots discuss how to attack a B-17, I never realised B-17's were so small..

[KesaAnna]

Jap fighter pilots discuss how to attack a B-17, I never realised B-17's were so small..

I know you are joking , but when I stood next to an - honest - to - god B-17 sitting on a runway ten feet away , I was shocked at how small it was.

Likewise , I always thought the Stuka was roughly equal to a fighter , though a little larger maybe ? No , a Stuka parked next to an Me 109 was like a hulking 30 - year - old standing next to a 5 - year - old.

The scale of photos is often terribly misleading somehow.

the 88mm halftrack, the bunkerflak

I never heard of it before. I likes the look of it ! I seem to have a preference for rakish - looking , clumsy - looking , improvised - looking equipment. I'm sure that's why I keep stubbornly investing in the Marder - series.

And so I would like to see the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_P-26_Peashooter

I gotta admit it would be hard to justify . According to Wikipedia there was only ONE in the Spanish Civil War , with the Republicans ,

and the rest in the Pacific theatre , with the armed forces of the Philippines.

[KesaAnna]

Well , it's a weekly UNIT discussion thread ..... but I would like to see an option where , if you go to North Afrika , you can put your infantry guys in Afrika Korps pith helmets.

I used to see Afrika Korps pith helmets in army surplus stores when I was little . Apparently a good number of them survived in good condition because they were little - used. But , in my mind , when I think Afrika Korps , I think of the pith helmets I used to see as a child.

Seriously though , I refrain from upgrading my infantry in ' 43 because I loathe baggy pants and lace - up boots. The Americans and British can keep them !

[voxr]

Jap fighter pilots discuss how to attack a B-17, I never realised B-17's were so small..

I know you are joking , but when I stood next to an - honest - to - god B-17 sitting on a runway ten feet away , I was shocked at how small it was.

Likewise , I always thought the Stuka was roughly equal to a fighter , though a little larger maybe ? No , a Stuka parked next to an Me 109 was like a hulking 30 - year - old standing next to a 5 - year - old.

The scale of photos is often terribly misleading somehow.

the 88mm halftrack, the bunkerflak

I never heard of it before. I likes the look of it ! I seem to have a preference for rakish - looking , clumsy - looking , improvised - looking equipment. I'm sure that's why I keep stubbornly investing in the Marder - series.

And so I would like to see the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_P-26_Peashooter

I gotta admit it would be hard to justify . According to Wikipedia there was only ONE in the Spanish Civil War , with the Republicans ,

and the rest in the Pacific theatre , with the armed forces of the Philippines.

Love the Marder series as well, especially the I (which is in-game as the Panzerjager 35R). The open-topped TD's aren't actually that bad, as AT is generally best used as a second-line support, though I must admit the Stug line's ability to fill gaps in the frontline is very useful.

[George_Parr]

Love the Marder series as well, especially the I (which is in-game as the Panzerjager 35R). The open-topped TD's aren't actually that bad, as AT is generally best used as a second-line support, though I must admit the Stug line's ability to fill gaps in the frontline is very useful.

I don't think the Panzerjäger 35R is supposed to be a Marder I.

The Marder I was build on the basis of Lorraine carriers, Hotchkiss tanks, and the FCM 36, carrying a 7.5cm or 7.62cm gun (if not build as self-propelled artillery carrying older 10.5cm or 15cm guns). The Panzerjäger 35R, on the other hand, was made from the Renault R35 and carried only the Czech 4.7cm AT-gun that was also used in the Panzerjäger I.

[adiekmann]

A few things that came to my mind are:

Recon:

• Focke-Wulf Fw 189

This is my favorite Recon aircraft! Someone modded one for PC1 and I always included it in my equipment file. I just don't know how much it would in practical game terms differ from the Fieseler Fi 156 Storch.

Strategic Bomber:

• Focke-Wulf Fw 200 (for sea scenarios, high naval attack)

This would be a close second request and serves a more practical purpose in game terms. Long-range maritime bomber and recon. It's advantage in game terms could be +3 sight, and longer range?

[adiekmann]

Jap fighter pilots discuss how to attack a B-17, I never realised B-17's were so small..

I know you are joking , but when I stood next to an - honest - to - god B-17 sitting on a runway ten feet away , I was shocked at how small it was.

Likewise , I always thought the Stuka was roughly equal to a fighter , though a little larger maybe ? No , a Stuka parked next to an Me 109 was like a hulking 30 - year - old standing next to a 5 - year - old.

The scale of photos is often terribly misleading somehow.




Yes, I too saw a B-17 in a air museum in Oregon some 15 years ago and noticed how much smaller it was than I though from books and photos growing up. Somewhere online you can find photos of a B-17 next to a B-29. Then compare the B-29 to a B-52! Holy Toledo! That will put things into perspective.

BTW, while there, there was a former B-17 pilot doing Q&A standing in front of it who had done missions over Germany. He and I started talking and a small crowd began to gather to listen in. One highlight that I will share here is when I asked him if he ever met a Luftwaffe fighter pilot after the war. He answered "yes" and went on to tell me this story:

He asked the German what was going on in his mind when they were making their attack passes. He answered, "I was scared to death! How about you guys?"
He answered the same. Then they shared a drink together and talked about the insanity of war.

[FunPolice749]

For some units I would love to see among various nations I think by far the thing I would love to see most is an expansion of the Hugarian armor units. Of all the minor nations in WW2 Hungary was one of the few with unique tanks that they produced themselves.
The Toldi series was a license built version of a Swedish L/60 but was improved upon several times to better adapt to the Soviet medium and heavy tanks. They did struggle seriously in the face of those tanks but did decently well against light soviet tanks which were common in 1941. There were numerous upgrades to it that give it a pretty clear path of upgrading options (From 1 to 2 to 2a to 3).
The Turan the medium tank was meant to be an upgrade over the Toldi but suffered a slow production process to the point that their first combat happened ion 1944 where they were outclassed by t-34s and IS tanks.
Beyond those main two types there were various others such as the Zrinyi tank destroyers, the Nimrod which was one of the first armored AA guns, or even late war prototypes like the 44M Tas which is quite similar to the German Panther.
Personally I would love to see a Hugarian dlc pack seeing players go through the war as Hungary.

I would also like to eventually see Japanese tanks and vehicles added because of how diverse that field was for them.
Beyond that I would love more prototype units such as the German Flammtiger or the Soviet KV-3.

[Tassadar]

A few things that came to my mind are:

Recon:

• Focke-Wulf Fw 189

This is my favorite Recon aircraft! Someone modded one for PC1 and I always included it in my equipment file. I just don't know how much it would in practical game terms differ from the Fieseler Fi 156 Storch.

Better range, higher defense and ability to shoot back? Currently recons on the German side have 0 air attack - having some that are more sturdy and at least slighlty less prone to fighters could be interesting. Of course the player would then have to decide if the extra stats are woth the larger costs and possibly even increased slots. In fact if this recon plane route is valid, then not only Fw 189 could make an appearance, but also Do 215 or even a purely recon Ar 234, not to mention the huge variety of Japanese recon planes and their importance over the Pacific.

[voxr]

Love the Marder series as well, especially the I (which is in-game as the Panzerjager 35R). The open-topped TD's aren't actually that bad, as AT is generally best used as a second-line support, though I must admit the Stug line's ability to fill gaps in the frontline is very useful.

I don't think the Panzerjäger 35R is supposed to be a Marder I.

The Marder I was build on the basis of Lorraine carriers, Hotchkiss tanks, and the FCM 36, carrying a 7.5cm or 7.62cm gun (if not build as self-propelled artillery carrying older 10.5cm or 15cm guns). The Panzerjäger 35R, on the other hand, was made from the Renault R35 and carried only the Czech 4.7cm AT-gun that was also used in the Panzerjäger I.

You're right. The two look similar to me and for some unknown reason I mixed up the Hotchkiss and Renault chassis.

[adiekmann]

A few things that came to my mind are:

Recon:

• Focke-Wulf Fw 189

This is my favorite Recon aircraft! Someone modded one for PC1 and I always included it in my equipment file. I just don't know how much it would in practical game terms differ from the Fieseler Fi 156 Storch.

Better range, higher defense and ability to shoot back? Currently recons on the German side have 0 air attack - having some that are more sturdy and at least slighlty less prone to fighters could be interesting. Of course the player would then have to decide if the extra stats are woth the larger costs and possibly even increased slots. In fact if this recon plane route is valid, then not only Fw 189 could make an appearance, but also Do 215 or even a purely recon Ar 234, not to mention the huge variety of Japanese recon planes and their importance over the Pacific.

Hmmm...good points. Yes, the Fw 189 was highly maneuverable, did have some defensive armament, and probably had longer range than the Storch.

I see you are already looking forward to a Pacific General/Admiral? If so, yes, depending on how much naval action is included, long range recon would be super important!

[Tassadar]

and probably had longer range than the Storch.

It was in fact quite significantly shorter, unintuitive as it may seem.

But that does bring up a point that the could be even a bit more more difference in airplane operational ranges. Right now it's easy to notice on the battlefiled, but rarely presents the problem of bombers having to operate without escort.

[Patrick Ward]

Jap fighter pilots discuss how to attack a B-17, I never realised B-17's were so small..

I know you are joking , but when I stood next to an - honest - to - god B-17 sitting on a runway ten feet away , I was shocked at how small it was.

Many years ago I was modelling a Mosquito for a documentary proposal. I spent ages getting all the details right from books, film and online resources. Even got the restoration guys in New Zealand to send me a load of cockpit shots so I could get the canopy frame right for the pilots eye view.
Eventually I twigged that a museum not so far away ( that I'd never heard of ) actually had a Mossie in bits in a hangar so I took my wife down so I could get some more useful reference and damn was it tiny. I'd spent ages obsessing over the form of particular panels only to realise that in real life they were so small I needn't worry. And I'm talking relatively big panels like the engine fairing and wheel covers.

As for a Spitfire .. I wouldn't fit in due to my height ( 6'1/2") and I'm too broad. I've seen small people sit in them in ordinary civvy clothes and there's next to no visibility. You can't properly turn to see over your shoulder as you bang your head on the canopy and your shoulders are locked in place. Apparently the 109s were even smaller. That they could shoot anyone down at all is a minor miracle and as for landing....

P

[Retributarr]

What a "Startling-Revelation"... to hear you all!. There is nothing better than 'first-hand-confirmation' of the realities at hand... to so then "dispel our pre-conceptions" to see it as it is.

From what I am now "coming to realize", is that... yes!... "indeed!"... it seems to be almost a miracle that any of this equipment was even practically functional.

[Kerensky]

This is why they keep pushing initiatives to move flight and spaceflight away from human manned vehicles with drones and interstellar ships.

Life support systems for people is bulking and complex, doubly so because people aren't uniform in size and shape.

Meanwhile the CPU in the device you are using while reading this forum probably fits in the palm of your hand and they just keep getting smaller. And it doesn't require oxygen any of the other things an organism needs to live.