Diplomacy: Cooperation?

[Kaede11]

I just wanted to ask why is so hard to achieve "cooperation" right now. I remember it being easier when the game was launched... I just don't get why should I spend lots of resources on gift just for someone to cooperate with me, even though cooperating just simulates increasing relations between two factions.

Should it really be that hard?

[Gray Fox]

I believe that all diplomacy was made a little more difficult because of comments to this.

viewtopic.php?f=534&t=99067

[Kaede11]

Well I've just read that... and buying regions was probably broken, but I'm quite sure it would be better making specific transactions harder to obtain using modifiers than making it almost impossible for other countries to accept a cooperation deal...

[defekt]

Co-operation seems to be effectively broken at the moment. I can get Alliances from nations that sit at 0% Co-operation chance. Enemies, frenemies, nobodies and pro-besties - all of them sit at 0% Co-operation chance. Either I'm fundamentally misunderstanding what Co-operation is or something's busted.

[Kaede11]

As it is right now I've only been able to cooperate by bribing people. I start gifting them some gold, then giving them other goodies like provincial units to get that cooperation possibility to a reasonable level.

[Pocus]

Cooperation as alliance ask for some decent relationship. So you are bribing people so they like you, simply. Why would a nation be willing to cooperate with you if they don't like you?
The upcoming patch is easing a bit on cooperation, expect on average +15% extra chance to secure it, but it will depend again of your relationship. The more they like you, the bigger the bonus to get a cooperation.

[defekt]

I get that but it just seem strange that Co-operate starts at 0% and yet they're often >50% chance of Alliance from the off.

[Kaede11]

Cooperation as alliance ask for some decent relationship. So you are bribing people so they like you, simply. Why would a nation be willing to cooperate with you if they don't like you?
The upcoming patch is easing a bit on cooperation, expect on average +15% extra chance to secure it, but it will depend again of your relationship. The more they like you, the bigger the bonus to get a cooperation.

I understand the concept, but I don't agree with the idea. What I mean is that cooperation, in game, raises relationships as time goes on... I see it as a sign of good will between 2 nations. I don't think I need to bribe another nation with gold and then again for them to understand I want to have them as friends and not enemies. Maybe the "issue" is not with cooperation itself, but the fact that the only way to rise another country's opinion of you is by bribing or cooperating.

The easiest scenario is "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" and while wars have some impact on other powers opinion is almost negligible. Declaring war to Athens might create an easier time for me when trying to cooperate with Sparta without relying on bribes. Another scenario could be different small powers being affraid of a big one.

I mean, I can understand them not wanting to have good relations with me if they hate me. But they won't accept a good cooperation treaty even if they are just neutral with me. Also, as defekt says, most of the time there is a higher percentage of achieving an alliance with another power than starting to cooperate, which is weird.

That said, in a complete different topic, I would love to see a way to "return provinces" to other powers. For example, if I wanted to weaken an opponent without conquering their lands, I would like to have the option of forcing him to return those to a previous owner and "liberate" them. Do you think that would be possible in the future?

[Pocus]

Probably yes, not sure when though ...

[poesel71]

I agree with Kaede11 that there should be better chances for cooperation. Especially small (in terms of military, money, metal or size) nations should be happy if bigger nations want to cooperate with them. Unless relationships are very bad there should be a good chance that the smaller nation agrees without having to bribe them.