Grand-Campaign: To-Be?... or... Not-To-Be???.

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Retributarr
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Grand-Campaign: To-Be?... or... Not-To-Be???.

Post by Retributarr »

If There is to be... a "Grand-Campaign!:"
IF!... there is to be a "Grand-Campaign"... will it be the "European-Theatre"... or... the "Pacific-Theatre"???.

If... this "Grand-Campaign"... will be dealing with the... "European-Theatre"... 'And' if perchance... "Italy"... becomes 'One' of the 'major-players' in this 'Epic'... then may I suggest... that 'Italy' starts off on this historic-journey... in "Ethiopia"... where 'Benito Mussolini'... began his effort to forge a 'New-Roman-Empire'!.
Italo-Ethiopian War, (1935–36)
https://www.bing.com/search?q=Italo-Eth ... 8A6D6D55FC [Web-Address Link now Corrected]]
Italian-Ethiopian War (also called the Italo-Ethiopian War or Italo-Abyssinian War) was the third and final Italian attempt to gain colonial control of Ethiopia (Abyssinia). In 1935, Ethiopia was one of the few independent states in a European-dominated Africa.

Mussolini invaded Ethiopia, because, first of all, he had grandiose ideas of building a “new Roman Empire,” and being the new Julius Caesar. But, this was not the only reason for his invading the African country. The italian colonies of Eritrea and Somalia were under constant raids from gangs in Ethiopia.
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Italo-Ethiopian War, (1935–36), an armed conflict that resulted in Ethiopia’s subjection to Italian rule. Often seen as one of the episodes that prepared the way for World War II, the war demonstrated the ineffectiveness of the League of Nations when League decisions were not supported by the great powers.
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Last edited by Retributarr on Sun May 31, 2020 4:02 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Retributarr
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Re: Grand-Campaign: To-Be?... or... Not-To-Be???.

Post by Retributarr »

East African campaign (World War II) - Wikipedia
The East African campaign (also known as the Abyssinian campaign)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Afri ... ld_War_II)

The British Empire, against Italy and its colony of Italian East Africa, between June 1940 and November 1941.

September 1943
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The East African campaign was the first Allied strategic victory in the war; few Italian forces escaped the region to be used in other campaigns and the Italian defeat greatly eased the flow of supplies through the Red Sea to Egypt. Most of the Commonwealth forces were transferred to North Africa to participate in the Western Desert Campaign.
https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=it ... 117&ch=467
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Last edited by Retributarr on Sun May 31, 2020 6:35 am, edited 2 times in total.
Kerensky
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Re: Grand-Campaign: To-Be?... or... Not-To-Be???.

Post by Kerensky »

I would highly doubt a Grand Campaign would be launched from Africa.

But until they make the official announcement... who knows, anything is possible. :?:
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Re: Grand-Campaign: To-Be?... or... Not-To-Be???.

Post by Retributarr »

Kerensky wrote: Sun May 31, 2020 1:40 am I would highly doubt a Grand Campaign would be launched from Africa.

But until they make the official announcement... who knows, anything is possible. :?:
Agreed!... normally a "Grand-Campaign"... would 'Not' be launched from Africa.

However!... if an "Italian-Directed-Campaign" were ever to be included as one of the Game choices for a "Grand-Campaign"..., then for the "Italians"... it just could very-well start from Africa.

Just think of how 'New' and different that would be!. No-one else has done that... that I am aware of... no-one!.
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Re: Grand-Campaign: To-Be?... or... Not-To-Be???.

Post by fluffybunnyuk »

I think an island hopping Japanese grand campaign would be great. It would also introduce more naval combat, aircraft carriers+fighters , subs, battleships, cruisers.
Capturing things like Singapore, a sweep through the jungle would make epic large maps, and the islands could be single mission.

A US campaign working up from Australia to Japan works nice as well with Iwo Jima as a showpiece map. Both have great scope to expand the unit lists, add more dimension, and have manageable campaigns.
A choice of route hopping islands would be interesting providing different challenges along the way., and an opportunity to make theatre wide mistakes in planning.
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Re: Grand-Campaign: To-Be?... or... Not-To-Be???.

Post by wecker »

Hello,
I strongly support both ideas - Italy and Japan.
Great pictures from italian early armour by the way.
Imagine you could start 1935 in Ethiopia, switch to the Spanish Civil War in 1936, try sourthern France in 1939, go on to the Greece 1940, the Balkans 1941, North Africa, join the fight in Russia (remember the Charge of the "Savoia Cavalleria" at Izbushensky) and final annihilation in the russian winter of 1943.
It is also worth to mention, that 1935 was the second attempt of Italy to conquer Ethopia.
The italian kingdom failed to do so in 1896 and lost the battle of Adua.
This was one of the main reasons why Mussolini wanted to exact revenge on Ethiopia.
Keep on creating ideas.
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Re: Grand-Campaign: To-Be?... or... Not-To-Be???.

Post by Retributarr »

Benito Mussolini ambitions in WWII _ Italian Empire [Back-Ground History]
https://www.bing.com/search?q=Benito+Mu ... RS=CHECKED

Mussolini entered World War II on the side of Adolf Hitler with plans to enlarge Italy's territorial holdings. He had designs on an area of western Yugoslavia, southern France, Corsica, Malta, Tunisia, part of Algeria, an Atlantic port in Morocco, French Somaliland and British Egypt and Sudan.

In its second invasion of Ethiopia in 1935–36, Italy was successful and it merged its new conquest with its older east African colonies to create Italian East Africa. In 1939, Italy invaded Albania and incorporated it into the Fascist state. During the Second World War (1939–1945), Italy occupied British Somaliland, parts of south-eastern France, western Egypt and most of Greece, but then lost those conquests and its African colonies, including Ethiopia, to the invading allied forces by 1943

Italian colonial empire
Impero coloniale italiano
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The Italian Empire at its greatest extent:

Mussolini's aims were that Italy had to become the dominant power in the Mediterranean that would be able to challenge France or Britain, as well as attain access to the Atlantic and Indian Oceans.Mussolini alleged that Italy required uncontested access to the world's oceans and shipping lanes to ensure its national sovereignty
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Re: Grand-Campaign: To-Be?... or... Not-To-Be???.

Post by KesaAnna »

An Italian grand campaign beginning in Ethiopia certainly wouldn't hurt my feelings.

Over all , an Italian grand campaign is my hearts desire. :D

Irrespective of the Italians , a campaign that begins with Ethiopia , or with the Spanish Civil War , might give the player a reason to buy and use horse - drawn artillery and cavalry ? As things stand , because the campaign advances forward in time so quickly , you can't really justify horse - drawn artillery , cheap as it is , because it is already woefully obsolete as early as 1940.

Err , come to think of it , with the first scenario of Poland, I'm already switching out whatever I have for half - track - drawn 15 cm guns. Artillery is something of a problem at the moment . Half - track - drawn 15 cm guns are the ONLY way to go.

Honestly , I don't know what to do about that . A 1935 or 1936 start date MIGHT give you a reason to use other artillery pieces besides the 15 cm , and to use horse - drawn , rather than proceeding as quickly as possible to half - tracks.

You have a similar situation with cavalry . It is hard to justify 3 core slots for a unit that MIGHT be useful in Poland , and MIGHT be useful in a few scenarios in North Afrika or Russia , but is otherwise expensively substandard.

Push the start date back to 1935 or 1936 though ? Who had full - fledged half - track mounted infantry in 1935 - 36 anyway ? Tanks are already a problem in 1935 - 36 , but not impossibly so. In Poland , for example , which is in 1939 , it might not be so easy for your German tanks to beat the Polish cavalry , except that the AI keeps throwing its cavalry at you one at a time , and unsupported.

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As for an Italian Grand Campaign in general , and specifically an unhistorical path where the Italians can conceivably win , I see two big problems ;

The Italians don't get an adequate tank until late 1943 or 1944. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P26/40_tank

This could perhaps be alleviated somewhat if the Italians had a good AT . Here again though , the Italians don't get this beauty https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semovente_da_90/53 until late 1943 or 1944.

The second problem is , if the random scenarios I have played are any clue , the Italians never get half - tracks. Not for infantry , or artillery , AT , or AA either.

The Italian army is road - bound , and if they have to go off - road they are busted back to the 19th century . The British , Russians , and Americans will out - maneuver you . Hmm , maybe here substantial cavalry forces would help ? But I haven't experimented with it yet.

In random scenarios the Italians can buy German Stukas . Perhaps allow the Italians to buy German equipment , perhaps at inflated cost ?
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Re: Grand-Campaign: To-Be?... or... Not-To-Be???.

Post by Retributarr »

Now!... to add to your terrific-analysis... "KesaAnna":
The WWII German Army was 80% Horse Drawn; Business
https://www.zdnet.com/article/the-wwii- ... m-history/
Not many people know that the greatest use of horses in any military conflict in history was by the Germans in WWII: 80% of their entire transport was equestrian. Despite all the propaganda about Blitzkreig, formidable German R&D, industrial design and production, the day to day mechanics of that fighting force involved an average of 1.1 million horses throughout the war. Of the 322 German divisions in the middle of the war - 1943 - only 52 were armored or motorized.
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http://www.worldwar2facts.org/the-overl ... n-ww2.html
In the first mechanized war, the German Army found itself relying heavily on the horse. Horse-drawn Artillery, supply wagons, and Cavalry were widely used. It is estimated that the Germans took almost 2.75 million horses into battle, nearly twice what they used in World War I. Yet very little has been written about these units. This area of German military history is, by far, the most overlooked aspect of the war.

Tanks in the Italian Army
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanks_in_the_Italian_Army
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The first model produced for the Royal [Italian] Army (Regio Esercito), was the FIAT 3000 (by 1935 renamed L5/21). They were ready by 1922, and served well to forge Italian interwar armoured tactics and was in use until 1943.

Another model developed in 1930, was the gun-armed (Vickers-Termi 37mm) serie II or FIAT 3000B. Both formed the bulk of the Italian army corp until new models arrived in 1935.

Italy produced a large number of CV-33 and CV-35 tankettes based on this Vickers-Carden-Lloyd concept.

the Fiat-Ansaldo CV-33 light tank and was only armed with two machine guns and was in wide use at the beginning of the war in Africa. About 300 CV-33s were built.

The L6/40 light tank was developed prior to World War II and used by the Italian army from 1940 and on.
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Fiat-Ansaldo L6/40 tank in 1940.

The Carro Armato L6/40, was put into production in 1939, with 283 finally produced. It was the main tank employed by the Italian forces fighting on the Eastern Front alongside the L6/40-based Semovente 47/32 self-propelled gun. L6/40s were also used in the North African campaign.
M13/40
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The M13/40, weighing 13-14 tons, was fitted with a 47 mm gun, having armor-piercing capabilities, in the turret and a four-men crew. Series production began in late 1940.

Beginning in 1942, the Italian Army recognized the firepower weakness of the M13/40 series and employed the Semovente 75/18 self-propelled gun alongside the tanks in their armored units.
Semovente da 75/18 Self-propelled gun
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Fiat M14/41 tank.
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The Carro Armato M14/41 was essentially the M13/40 fitted with a more powerful diesel engine which was equipped with air filters designed to cope with the harsh conditions of the desert. Production amounted to 1,103 of these vehicles.

M15/42
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The M15/42 was a medium tank whose production began on 1 January 1943. 90 had been built before the Armistice with the Allies on 8 September 1943. Having occupied most of the Italian territory, Germany confiscated all remaining M15/42s.

P26/40 medium tank... The design of the P26/40 "heavy" tank had started in 1940.
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the L3 tank was used almost everywhere that Italian troops fought during World War II. L3s were found on the Italian/French border, North Africa, Italian East Africa, the Balkans, USSR, Sicily, and Italy.
Italian L3/35 in the Balkans, August 1943
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A further development of the Fiat L3 light tank, the Fiat L6/40 went through a number of prototypes during the late 1930s and used the Italian army from 1940 and on through World War II. The L6/40 light tanks were used by the Italians in the Balkans Campaign, in the war against the Soviet Union, in the latter stages of the North African campaign, and in the defense of Sicily and Italy. The L6/40 was the main tank employed by the Italian forces fighting on the Eastern Front. The L6 fought alongside the L6/40-based Semovente 47/32 self-propelled gun.

Carro Armato L3/35 light tank:
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Carro Armato L6/40:
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It was the main tank employed by the Italian forces fighting on the Eastern Front alongside the L6/40-based Semovente 47/32 self-propelled gun. L6/40s were also used in the North African campaign.

Semovente da 47/32
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The Semovente da 75/18 was an Italian self-propelled gun of the Second World War. It was built by mounting the 75 mm Obice da 75/18 modello 34 mountain gun on the chassis of a M13/40, M14/41 or M15/42 tank.

Obice da 75/14 modello 34
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About 300 Semoventi da 47/32 were built from 1941 onward. After the Italian armistice in September 1943, the German Army took all Semovente 47/32s they could get hold of for their own use. The German designation was StuG L6 47/32 630(i). Some of these were provided to Germany's Croatian puppet state&[5] and the Slovene Home Guard.

The Semovente da 75/18 was intended to be an interim vehicle until the heavier P40 tank could be available.

Semovente da 75/18 during the North African Campaign, 1942.
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Although these machines were not widely known, the vehicle performed well in its role. Though it was technically similar to the StuG III, it had a totally different role, serving as divisional artillery instead of a pure assault gun. The organic structure consisted of two artillery groups for every armoured division,

The Semovente da 75/18s were deployed in the North African campaign and during the Allied invasion of Sicily, alongside M tank units to provide additional firepower.

Despite the fact that they were not designed to fight other tanks, their 75 mm howitzer proved ideal (thanks to its low muzzle velocity) for firing HEAT shells; its 5.2 kg HEAT shell ("Effetto Pronto" in Italian) could pierce 80 mm of armour at 500 meters, and could thus defeat tanks such as the US built M3 Grant and M4 Sherman used by the British Army.[4] As such, these machines were responsible for many of the successes by the Italian armoured troops during 1942–43, when the medium tanks (all armed with a 47 mm gun) were no longer effective.

The most successful action fought by Semovente da 75/18 took place on 10 June 1942, south of Knightsbridge, during the Battle of Gazala. Thirty M3 Grant and ten M3 Stuart of 1st and 6th Royal Tank Regiment attacked a position held by the Ariete division but were repelled by Semovente da 75/18s as well as some M13/40s and gun trucks, losing three Grants and two Stuarts from 6th Royal Tank Regiment and twelve Grants and three Stuarts from 1st Royal Tank Regiment.[6] The Italians lost two M13/40s.

the Semovente da 75/18 proved successful both in the direct support role and in anti-tank fighting; its main advantages, other than their sheer firepower, was in its thicker armour (relative to the medium tanks) and lower silhouette that made it more difficult to hit. Due to these features, the Semovente da 75/18 has been regarded as the only Italian armoured fighting vehicle to be seriously feared by Allied tank crews.

Semovente da 75/34 Self-propelled gun

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in 1943, production shifted to the M42 variant, with the M15/42 tank chassis and engine.
Carro Armato M15/42 tank
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It did not serve in North Africa, the theatre in which it was intended to operate, but served in Italy and in Yugoslavia with the German Wehrmacht.
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Re: Grand-Campaign: To-Be?... or... Not-To-Be???.

Post by Tassadar »

Ah, an Italian campagin...

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That would be a really interesting setting for several reasons. There's the point of equipment, not only unique and different compared what was used by other powers, but also the fact that a lot of it would be not as goood as allied equivalents, making thing challenging. There are also a lot of less known fronts and factions at play, further brining new content into the mix. My only concern is that the underpowered aspect of Italian army would be affecting the actual stats too much - can't now recall how it's in PzC2, but in the first game the MC202 was seriously underpowered compared to a P-40 for example.

There's a great campagin like this already in PzC1 and it does even start in Ethiopia, now replicating it into a more modern engine and expanding on the unit list and missions seems amazing.

https://www.matrixgames.com/forum/viewt ... 47&t=32748
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Re: Grand-Campaign: To-Be?... or... Not-To-Be???.

Post by Retributarr »

Tassadar wrote: Mon Jun 01, 2020 6:24 pm Ah, an Italian campagin...

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That would be a really interesting setting for several reasons. There's the point of equipment, not only unique and different compared what was used by other powers, but also the fact that a lot of it would be not as goood as allied equivalents, making thing challenging. There are also a lot of less known fronts and factions at play, further brining new content into the mix. My only concern is that the underpowered aspect of Italian army would be affecting the actual stats too much - can't now recall how it's in PzC2, but in the first game the MC202 was seriously underpowered compared to a P-40 for example.

There's a great campagin like this already in PzC1 and it does even start in Ethiopia, now replicating it into a more modern engine and expanding on the unit list and missions seems amazing.

https://www.matrixgames.com/forum/viewt ... 47&t=32748
[Singa along with a me] Heyaa!!!... Heyaa!!!... Heyaa!!!... 'Whas-a-matta-for-you-today?' put'a your'a money down, bring your Tank and let us play!. We'll slug-it-out in the Desert Sand... then see who will fall and... who will stand!!!. We'll engage our forces in the 'Desert-Sand!'... in the Dunes, in the Gulleys... untill evening... untill morning-noon-and-night... until one is Victor... to his delight'.

"Seriously!!!"... I would like to see this exceptional opportunity to broaden the horizons of this 'Niche' Game to new horizons, instead of by reacting... by "non-chalantely just shrugging it off" as if it was of no-consequence... what-so-ever!.
To help this 'Genre' survive... and have some 'staying-power'... an opportunity like this... needs to be taken advantage of... not dismissively-dismissed!.

"I-Myself!" am ready for 'New-Frontiers' to explore!... so!... let's get on with it!... "I Canna' wait ne-More!".
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Re: Grand-Campaign: To-Be?... or... Not-To-Be???.

Post by Retributarr »

Italian Forces and Industry in Early World War 2:
VIDEO:
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=WW ... ORM%3DVDRE

Just how effective was the Italian Army during WW2?
https://www.quora.com/Just-how-effectiv ... during-WW2
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If all you are just reading are the Allied Official Histories then, yes, one could get the impression that the Italians were militarily incompetent. Contrary to popular myth, the Italian soldiers did not simply surrender when attacked during Operation Compass. Italian artillery gunners where well known for firing their guns to the death, often with the full knowledge that their shells could do no damage to the British tanks. More at Website:

Royal Italian Army
https://www.quartermastersection.com/italian/
In 1940 the Italian army had a strength of 1,630,000 men grouped in 73 divisions. These included 59 infantry divisions, six Alpini divisions, three Celere divisions (cavalry), three armoured divisions plus various Frontier Guard units and coastal divisions. Italy's army suffered mainly from inadequate equipment and leadership and this led to a series of disastrous defeats in 1940.

Italian WW2 tanks - Tank Encyclopedia
https://tanks-encyclopedia.com/ww2/ital ... _Tanks.php
Retributarr
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Re: Grand-Campaign: To-Be?... or... Not-To-Be???.

Post by Retributarr »

Mussolini: Il Duce':
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"I-Dare-You!!!"... to "Come Play" with me!... i will hurt you "Mentally".... then i will hurt you "Physically".

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I will 'Crush-You' like stepping on an 'Insect'-'Inseckt'

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I have 'Presence'... I have 'Charm'... I will do "You" some great 'Harm'.

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To be?... or... Not to be?... I choose "To Be!!!".
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I have 'Friends' too!... with 'Friends' like mine... who worries about 'Enemies'.

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If you 'Defy-Me'... you will get a... "What-For!".

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Whatta-Youa' Staring At?... Never see "Awsome" before?.
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I know what youre thinking,... But!... "But-a... You-Think-Wrong!".

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Problem?... What Problem?... Once your gone!... there is 'No-More-Problem!'.
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Re: Grand-Campaign: To-Be?... or... Not-To-Be???.

Post by Kerensky »

All those pictures of Mussolini, and somehow not including the most iconic image of his face. :P

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOzezrUxAMk
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Re: Grand-Campaign: To-Be?... or... Not-To-Be???.

Post by Akkula »

Thats CABAL from Command & Conquer!!! :shock: :shock:
Eastern Front: Soviet Storm (v1.96): http://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=147&t=50342
Modern Conflicts (v2.10): http://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=147&t=72062
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Re: Grand-Campaign: To-Be?... or... Not-To-Be???.

Post by Kerensky »

Akkula wrote: Fri Jun 05, 2020 12:06 am Thats CABAL from Command & Conquer!!! :shock: :shock:
Art imitating life? :wink:
Retributarr
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Re: Grand-Campaign: To-Be?... or... Not-To-Be???.

Post by Retributarr »

"We choose to go to the Moon!"... not because it is easy!... but!... because "it-is-hard!".

KENNEDY:
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Tassadar wrote:
Mon Jun 01, 2020 6:24 pmAh, an Italian campagin...
There's a great campagin like this already in PzC1 and it does even start in Ethiopia, now replicating it into a more modern engine and expanding on the unit list and missions seems amazing.

https://www.matrixgames.com/forum/viewt ... 47&t=32748
Italian Campaign 2.0 (v.1.95 on 6th April 2018) [ FOR PZC1 ONLY ]
Post by Uhu » Wed Mar 14, 2012 1:26 pm

Dear Panzercorps players
I announce official the making of a new version of nikivdd's great Italian Campaign (http://slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.p ... &t=26888)
the Italian Campaign 2.0!
The reason for creating an another version was, that I wanted an Italian campaign, where the scenarios are more historical.

So, I first learned how to change auxiliary units (for example replace German units to Italians), but later, as I got the grip on the scenario editing and the game modding, many other features were changed to make the Italian Campaign 2.0 (referred IC 2.0) more Italic-style.

- Many new scenarios were added (with the great help of nikivdd).
- Several new units were added, plus the older ones revised to make them more historical.

- The North African theater was added also to the campaign tree, because the DMP Team (maker of Afrikakorps, Winterkrieg and other add-ons) was so kind and allowed me to use the North African terrain, Afrikakorps scenarios and unit icons.
- I tried to add some additional features to the campaign: they will be released here, from time to time.
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Retributarr
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Re: Grand-Campaign: To-Be?... or... Not-To-Be???.

Post by Retributarr »

Mussolini’s Navy Foiled: The Battle of Cape Matapan:
[Heavy-Naval-Action: The information below... is less than 1/2 of that at the Web-Site]

The humiliating defeat of Mussolini’s navy at the Battle of Cape Matapan was a serious blow to Axis plans in the Mediterranean.

https://warfarehistorynetwork.com/2016/ ... e-matapan/

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In June 1940, Italian dictator Benito Mussolini wrestled with a dilemma.

Mussolini had to decide whether to ally himself with the all-conquering Hitler and pick up some of the pieces of a crumbling Europe or remain in supportive neutrality and gain nothing.

The Royal Navy was hard-pressed by the German Kreigsmarine, whose U-Boats roamed at will in the Atlantic. Most of England’s naval strength was committed to convoy duty in the North Atlantic and the home waters to guard against a German invasion.

That left precious few second-rate ships to guard the important passage to India through the Mediterranean and the Suez Canal. Italian airplanes soon made Malta untenable as a naval base.

With the powerful French Navy neutralized by the armistice with Hitler and the British bombardment at Oran crippling the Vichy fleet, Mussolini was confident that he could defeat the scant British forces arrayed against him. The Mediterranean would become an Italian lake.

Mussolini learned that Italy had a finite amount of fuel oil for its thirsty ships. The vast pools of oil in Italian-controlled Libya would not be tapped until after the war.

Il Duce began the systematic conquest of territory around the Mare Nostrum. From Libya, the Italian Army struck deep into Egypt to dislodge the stubborn English from Suez. In East Africa, Italian forces, now cut off from home, overran British Somaliland and tried to close the Red Sea to British shipping.

Meanwhile, other Italian forces invaded and occupied Albania. But when Greece became the next... The Italian invasion of Greece stalled.

In Egypt, Italian troops were pushed back into Libya. In desperation, Mussolini turned to his German ally for help. The result was the introduction of the small but tenacious German Africa Korps to North Africa. Units of the Luftwaffe also moved to bases in Sicily and North Africa.

In addition, Mussolini requested help from Hitler with the deteriorating situation in Greece. The Italian surface fleet was far more powerful than that of the Germans in the Mediterranean. The German price of assistance in Greece was the proxy use of the Italian fleet.

The admirals of the Italian Navy, the Regia Marina, did manage to get Germany to commit stocks of fuel oil, but Germany had little of its own oil to spare.

The bulk of the Italian fleet was anchored at the well-protected port of Taranto. On the night of November 11, 1940, Fairey Swordfish torpedo planes from the aircraft career HMS Illustrious sank or damaged several of Italy’s capital ships in a daring raid.

Allied convoys of troops and supplies were moving freely between Alexandria and Athens, reinforcing the Greek counteroffensive. The Nazis wanted that supply line cut, and the Italian Navy was the only tool at hand. Germany was even willing to give the Italians some precious fuel oil for the impending naval offensive.

Operation Gaudo, an effort to secure the seas around Greece. Steaming under radio silence, a powerful Italian squadron weighed anchor on March 26, 1941.

Aboard his flagship, the brand-new 45,000-ton battleship Vittorio Veneto, Iachino steamed out of Naples and moved boldly southward. Meanwhile, three squadrons of cruisers and a unit of destroyers departed from other Italian ports to rendezvous with him at sea. In all, his armada included the battleship, eight cruisers, and 13 destroyers.

British codebreakers had also unlocked numerous German and Italian codes and provided intelligence on the Italian sortie. The British commander in Egypt, Admiral Andrew B. Cunningham, took heed of the warnings and alerted the 7th Cruiser Squadron, which consisted of four cruisers and two destroyers under Admiral Henry Pridham-Whippell. Cunningham ordered Pridham-Whippell to steam south of Crete to intercept what was then perceived as a single enemy cruiser squadron. A flight of 30 Bristol Blenheim bombers stationed in Greece was also put on alert.

Cunningham ordered his three battleships and the carrier Formidable to build up steam and prepare to put to sea. Cunningham gave orders for all British units in the eastern Mediterranean to converge south of Crete at 1700 hours on March 28.

The British had to deal with ships that had been in almost constant service since the war began. Generally older, slower, and less well armed than their Italian counterparts, many British ships, especially the destroyers, had gone for long periods without routine maintenance. Some ships could not even leave port, while others had to turn back, and still others slowed down the newer, faster ships.

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Superb Royal Navy seamanship and the implementation of radar spelled the disaster for the Italians during the Battle of Cape Matapan.

With no British convoys spotted on route to Greece, and reduced fuel reserves, no air cover, Iachino decided to withdraw. The Albacore British Bombers attack... had alerted him to the presence of at least one British aircraft carrier. All the Italian ships were ordered to turn northwest for home.

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An Italian heavy cruiser of the Zara-class cuts through the waters of the Mediterranean. Three of these warships, the Zara, Pola, and Fiume, armed with 8-inch main weapons, were lost during the Battle of Cape Matapan.

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Battle of Matapan. HMAS Stuart is in the foreground, HMS Havock at left, and two Italian Zara-class destroyers in the background. Radar gave the British the advantage during the night action.
KesaAnna
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Re: Grand-Campaign: To-Be?... or... Not-To-Be???.

Post by KesaAnna »

Thanks for all the Italian info. :mrgreen:

You can't get enough info on the Italians --- in English . :mrgreen:

Retributarr wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 11:53 pm
Mussolini learned that Italy had a finite amount of fuel oil for its thirsty ships. The vast pools of oil in Italian-controlled Libya would not be tapped until after the war.

The admirals of the Italian Navy, the Regia Marina, did manage to get Germany to commit stocks of fuel oil, but Germany had little of its own oil to spare.



Allied convoys of troops and supplies were moving freely between Alexandria and Athens, reinforcing the Greek counteroffensive. The Nazis wanted that supply line cut, and the Italian Navy was the only tool at hand. Germany was even willing to give the Italians some precious fuel oil for the impending naval offensive.


With no British convoys spotted on route to Greece, and reduced fuel reserves, no air cover, Iachino decided to withdraw.
Maybe the following would interest you ?

The elephant in the room --- in my opinion at least.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVo5I0xNRhg
Retributarr
Colonel - Fallschirmjäger
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Posts: 1416
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Re: Grand-Campaign: To-Be?... or... Not-To-Be???.

Post by Retributarr »

Was "Italian-Success" in WWII possible?:
As... "KesaAnna: » Tue Jun 09, 2020 3:33 am" has brought to my attention... is that the main reason for the 'Axis' losing the war... is the severe shortage or lack of... "Oil"
...supplies.
"KesaAnna": "The elephant in the room --- in my opinion at least".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVo5I0xNRhg

On 10 June 1940, Mussolini sided with Germany, though he was aware that Italy did not have the military capacity in 1940 to carry out a long war with France and the United Kingdom. Mussolini believed that after the imminent French armistice, Italy could gain territorial concessions from France and then he could concentrate his forces on a major offensive in Egypt, where British and Commonwealth forces were outnumbered by Italian forces.

Note: When the 250,000 man 'Italian-Army'... entered something like 60 miles/100 kilometers into 'Egypt'... they established or set-up a series of frontal fortification zones to repel attacks from the British. However!... they failed to set-up a 'Flanking-Screening-Force' to prevent a surprise attack on their rear and sides. The British 'Matilda-Tanks' approached the Italian entrenchments from the rear and flanks of the Italians. The British used their new 'Matilda II-Tanks' [50 of them] as they were more modern... [Better Armor & Better Guns] and also at least twice as fast as the older Italian Tanks. The Italians surrendered!.

However the UK refused to accept German proposals for a peace that would involve accepting Germany's victories in Eastern and Western Europe, plans for a German invasion of the UK did not proceed, and the war continued.

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Italian vehicle mounted Cannone 90/53 Anti-Air-Craft-Gun

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Italian AA mounted on truck

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Piaggio P108

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Macchi C.202

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Sparviero__Escort Carrier "Not readied in time for use in the Mediterranean".

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New light cruiser, Capitani Romani , a class of 12, with Italian Radar Ec3, 1942.
"Not readied in time for use in the Mediterranean".
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