Hi,
What is the best way of defeating an all cavalry army with a mainly infantry army?
My latest match (against AI) was between Egypt and Parthian. The only reason I won it was because it became nightfall and I`ve pushed more units of them from the map.
I tried to trap their units, but this was more often a miss than a hit.
As you might have noticed from the question, I`m new to this game. Only have played it for around 20 hours.
Thank you in advance!
Defeating all cavalry armies - Question
Re: Defeating all cavalry armies - Question
You can use your skirmishers to good effect. Keep them just in front of your infantry so they can fall back to safety if charged, then use them to pepper the horse. Massed archers shielded by heavy or medium foot's zone of control is also a good option. Keep a checkerboard formation; melee in the front row, archers in the back. Just watch out for cavalry getting around the infantry and into a position where the archers are vulnerable, or a lucky cavalry charge disrupting your infantry long enough to drag them into melee and allow the archers behind to be charged and seen off.
You may also want to deploy a mixed cavalry-infantry formation. The cavalry can catch the enemy cavalry, and then the infantry follow up.
You can also deploy a screen of cheap infantry (raw hoplites, Punic foot, Viking thralls, etc.) to act as a cow catcher for cavalry (a horse catcher?) Once the enemy cavalry are immobilised on this screen, the rest of the army can manoeuvre behind the screen and trap the enemy cavalry. You'll still need some cavalry/skirmishers to follow up, unless you really do manage to surround the cavalry (not unheard of if the cavalry pursue your skirmishers into the gap between your screen and your main line).
Against lancers, your best bet is numbers. Try to bring up strong enough infantry or infantry on bad enough terrain to withstand the lancer charges, then swarm them from the sides with your own cavalry and cheap foot. Armoured lancers are expensive and generally few in number. They cannot be deployed everywhere.
You may also want to deploy a mixed cavalry-infantry formation. The cavalry can catch the enemy cavalry, and then the infantry follow up.
You can also deploy a screen of cheap infantry (raw hoplites, Punic foot, Viking thralls, etc.) to act as a cow catcher for cavalry (a horse catcher?) Once the enemy cavalry are immobilised on this screen, the rest of the army can manoeuvre behind the screen and trap the enemy cavalry. You'll still need some cavalry/skirmishers to follow up, unless you really do manage to surround the cavalry (not unheard of if the cavalry pursue your skirmishers into the gap between your screen and your main line).
Against lancers, your best bet is numbers. Try to bring up strong enough infantry or infantry on bad enough terrain to withstand the lancer charges, then swarm them from the sides with your own cavalry and cheap foot. Armoured lancers are expensive and generally few in number. They cannot be deployed everywhere.
Re: Defeating all cavalry armies - Question
Thank you so much, will try this!
Re: Defeating all cavalry armies - Question
Lancers are a dangerous nuisance, but more often than not it is the horse-archers who are the real PITA against an infantry army. Much of Ludendorfs advice above works also when dealing with horse archers, but you may want to extrapolate it a bit further.
Remember that all archers, including horse archers, have missiles for five turns (well, they have more, but their shooting efficiency drops by lots after five volleys). Also remember that no unit can lose more than one step of cohesion (unless catastrophic snake-eyes in cohesion test) from missile fire per turn. This means you may want to have your skirmishers (javelinmen, slingers, or if desperate light archers) eat up the first two volleys (so that they become at worst Fragmented). Then have your cheap troops (the above mentioned cow-catchers) eat the next two volleys (Raw Defensive Spearmen is best for this, as they are dirt cheap and they have 720 men, so they have to eat lots of casualties before they start rolling for cohesion tests). When your "real" troopers move in, they will have to eat at most one volley of arrows.
Ie put your skirmishers at front, and your line units in checkerboard behind the skirmish-line. At front of checkerboard put your cheap arrow-catchers. When the skirmishers have eaten enough arrows they fall back (or the heavier troopers from behind move past them). Then when the cheap arrow-catchers have eaten enough arrows they (hopefully :p ) stay in place while your "real" troops move ahead of them through the holes in the checkerboard. Now the hostile horse-archers either have to engage your real troops in melee, or they have to evade off the field.
The above of course only works if you have affordable enough troops. Essentially you need pretty much a parity in number of skirmishers (javelinmen and slingers are cheaper than any mounted skirmishers, so your skirmishers will cost less even though you have same number) and at least 1.5 times more units in non-skirmishers (at least half the number of dirt-cheap arrow catchers of hostile prime units, and for each prime unit of hostile cavalry your need one of your own prime unit). Don't let the opponent to get behind your line (you need some cavalry on your flanks to husband the opponents flankers), or you can throw the whole plan out the window.
Essentially, if you are facing a horse-archer army and you can't match their number of horses, then leave your super-expensive elite infantry home, and let the grunts handle it. Quantity has a quality of its own.
Remember that all archers, including horse archers, have missiles for five turns (well, they have more, but their shooting efficiency drops by lots after five volleys). Also remember that no unit can lose more than one step of cohesion (unless catastrophic snake-eyes in cohesion test) from missile fire per turn. This means you may want to have your skirmishers (javelinmen, slingers, or if desperate light archers) eat up the first two volleys (so that they become at worst Fragmented). Then have your cheap troops (the above mentioned cow-catchers) eat the next two volleys (Raw Defensive Spearmen is best for this, as they are dirt cheap and they have 720 men, so they have to eat lots of casualties before they start rolling for cohesion tests). When your "real" troopers move in, they will have to eat at most one volley of arrows.
Ie put your skirmishers at front, and your line units in checkerboard behind the skirmish-line. At front of checkerboard put your cheap arrow-catchers. When the skirmishers have eaten enough arrows they fall back (or the heavier troopers from behind move past them). Then when the cheap arrow-catchers have eaten enough arrows they (hopefully :p ) stay in place while your "real" troops move ahead of them through the holes in the checkerboard. Now the hostile horse-archers either have to engage your real troops in melee, or they have to evade off the field.
The above of course only works if you have affordable enough troops. Essentially you need pretty much a parity in number of skirmishers (javelinmen and slingers are cheaper than any mounted skirmishers, so your skirmishers will cost less even though you have same number) and at least 1.5 times more units in non-skirmishers (at least half the number of dirt-cheap arrow catchers of hostile prime units, and for each prime unit of hostile cavalry your need one of your own prime unit). Don't let the opponent to get behind your line (you need some cavalry on your flanks to husband the opponents flankers), or you can throw the whole plan out the window.
Essentially, if you are facing a horse-archer army and you can't match their number of horses, then leave your super-expensive elite infantry home, and let the grunts handle it. Quantity has a quality of its own.
There are three kinds of people, those who can count and those who can't.
Re: Defeating all cavalry armies - Question
The General Staff of the Cimmerian armed forces thank the Spartan leadership for such a comprehensive guide to the current battle plans of Spartan forcesSwuul wrote: ↑Fri May 29, 2020 5:10 pm Lancers are a dangerous nuisance, but more often than not it is the horse-archers who are the real PITA against an infantry army. Much of Ludendorfs advice above works also when dealing with horse archers, but you may want to extrapolate it a bit further.
Remember that all archers, including horse archers, have missiles for five turns (well, they have more, but their shooting efficiency drops by lots after five volleys). Also remember that no unit can lose more than one step of cohesion (unless catastrophic snake-eyes in cohesion test) from missile fire per turn. This means you may want to have your skirmishers (javelinmen, slingers, or if desperate light archers) eat up the first two volleys (so that they become at worst Fragmented). Then have your cheap troops (the above mentioned cow-catchers) eat the next two volleys (Raw Defensive Spearmen is best for this, as they are dirt cheap and they have 720 men, so they have to eat lots of casualties before they start rolling for cohesion tests). When your "real" troopers move in, they will have to eat at most one volley of arrows.
Ie put your skirmishers at front, and your line units in checkerboard behind the skirmish-line. At front of checkerboard put your cheap arrow-catchers. When the skirmishers have eaten enough arrows they fall back (or the heavier troopers from behind move past them). Then when the cheap arrow-catchers have eaten enough arrows they (hopefully :p ) stay in place while your "real" troops move ahead of them through the holes in the checkerboard. Now the hostile horse-archers either have to engage your real troops in melee, or they have to evade off the field.
The above of course only works if you have affordable enough troops. Essentially you need pretty much a parity in number of skirmishers (javelinmen and slingers are cheaper than any mounted skirmishers, so your skirmishers will cost less even though you have same number) and at least 1.5 times more units in non-skirmishers (at least half the number of dirt-cheap arrow catchers of hostile prime units, and for each prime unit of hostile cavalry your need one of your own prime unit). Don't let the opponent to get behind your line (you need some cavalry on your flanks to husband the opponents flankers), or you can throw the whole plan out the window.
Essentially, if you are facing a horse-archer army and you can't match their number of horses, then leave your super-expensive elite infantry home, and let the grunts handle it. Quantity has a quality of its own.
Re: Defeating all cavalry armies - Question
You are, of course, welcome.
Damn. I knew I should have kept silent
There are three kinds of people, those who can count and those who can't.
Re: Defeating all cavalry armies - Question
I don't think units can panic (drop two cohesion levels) from missile fire. Even on snake eyes. I may be wrong about that, but it would be a first case observed for me.
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SuitedQueens
- Master Sergeant - Bf 109E
- Posts: 485
- Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2021 3:09 pm
Defeating all cavalry armies
The most boring and unreliable way is simply to chase them off the map. I never use it and usually delegate only 1 unit to do that to draw some of their attention from my main blob.
You have to remember that default AI is dumb in a sense that they will stand and shoot instead of retreating when they get into risky position. First of all, it's pretty much guaranteed that Light Horse will retreat for 5 squares (25% for 4 squares and 25% for 6 squares) and you will never catch them if you just charge them without thinking.
First tactic is slow and generally boring to execute. Any enemy unit can Evade only in 180 degree arc and they ignore ZoC's. You have to block 5 squares with your infantry (most of the time the other enemy adjacent units block some of these retreat squares too) and charge light horse with one of your free units. You will have to ZoC or engage light horses at >=90 degree angle or block fallback square with your infantry to keep them engaged in melee.
Second tactic is way more fun. You will be splitting your army in 2-3 parts and to get about 4 sq behind light horses to catch them after Evade action. They can't evade twice per round, but can fallback infinite amount of times. Thats why you need extra units to block their fallback square first. As you can guess you want some units in 2-3 sq in the enemy rear. Those units closer to the enemy can help you to wrap around enemy light horses to use first tactic. Remember that you need to only block 5 sq. If you charge from behind most of these sq. naturally blocked already.
Enemy units retreat straight backwards or if charged diagonally 1 square diagonally and then straight backwards. I not found many exceptions to this rule yet and the ones I found are all concerned with pass through and skirmishers. Good luck!
You should use fallback action with your bait units to decrease shooting damage and make wrapping around enemy army faster. You can turn around and move 2 sq back too.
You have to remember that default AI is dumb in a sense that they will stand and shoot instead of retreating when they get into risky position. First of all, it's pretty much guaranteed that Light Horse will retreat for 5 squares (25% for 4 squares and 25% for 6 squares) and you will never catch them if you just charge them without thinking.
First tactic is slow and generally boring to execute. Any enemy unit can Evade only in 180 degree arc and they ignore ZoC's. You have to block 5 squares with your infantry (most of the time the other enemy adjacent units block some of these retreat squares too) and charge light horse with one of your free units. You will have to ZoC or engage light horses at >=90 degree angle or block fallback square with your infantry to keep them engaged in melee.
Second tactic is way more fun. You will be splitting your army in 2-3 parts and to get about 4 sq behind light horses to catch them after Evade action. They can't evade twice per round, but can fallback infinite amount of times. Thats why you need extra units to block their fallback square first. As you can guess you want some units in 2-3 sq in the enemy rear. Those units closer to the enemy can help you to wrap around enemy light horses to use first tactic. Remember that you need to only block 5 sq. If you charge from behind most of these sq. naturally blocked already.
Enemy units retreat straight backwards or if charged diagonally 1 square diagonally and then straight backwards. I not found many exceptions to this rule yet and the ones I found are all concerned with pass through and skirmishers. Good luck!
You should use fallback action with your bait units to decrease shooting damage and make wrapping around enemy army faster. You can turn around and move 2 sq back too.