Hussite Battlewagons

[recharge]

Apologies if this has already been thrashed out somewhre else - couldn't find it

What is the logic for the Hussite Bwg being undrilled? My understanding was that they were very drilled at moving in formation and forming/reforming for combat.


Also, since Bwg can't be part of a battleline, can multiple groups form a column? Does each group still have to roll separately? If the first one fails, the ones behind are stuck?

Thanks,
John

[gozerius]

There is no restriction against including BW in a battle line. A battle line containing BW must make a CMT to move at all. A battleline can only perform advances.
Battlewagons and most light artillery are rated as undrilled and further restricted to represent the difficulty of repositioning such cumbersome and complicated war machines in the midst of battle. Most scholars agree that the legends of Hussites manuevering their war wagons on the battlefield like synchronized swimmers are at best a misunderstanding of the historical records. In virtually every battle the Hussites fought, the wagons were formed into a defensive perimeter with the horses unhitched and the wagons chained together. The rules permitting battle wagons to manuever at all is a bone tossed to the fantasy minded. Kind of like the "Arthurian" option in the Post-Roman British list.

[recharge]

Thanks, my research is obviously tainted by legend



John

[gozerius]

Fighting with or against battle wagons is pretty confusing. There are more special rules for battle wagons than any other troop type.
Some questions I have about them:
1. When shooting with battle wagons, does the owning player decide which side of the BG is shooting or does he decide for each base width?

2. Since battle wagons cannot be flank charged, and a base cannot be targeted by a charge if it is already in contact to its front except by a legal flank or rear charge, does that mean that engaged battle wagons cannot be charged on their other exposed sides?

3. For combat purposes, battle wagons fighting on their long edge count as two bases side by side. If fighting on a short edge they count as one base. Page 92 says that in melee battle wagons treat a side in contact with enemy as their front rank for combat, but the FAQ says that they have to split dice between sides if contacted on a long edge and short edge. Isn't this a contradiction?

[SirGarnet]

Fighting with or against battle wagons is pretty confusing. There are more special rules for battle wagons than any other troop type.
Some questions I have about them:
1. When shooting with battle wagons, does the owning player decide which side of the BG is shooting or does he decide for each base width?

Either long side can be chosen to shoot, not both.

2. Since battle wagons cannot be flank charged, and a base cannot be targeted by a charge if it is already in contact to its front except by a legal flank or rear charge, does that mean that engaged battle wagons cannot be charged on their other exposed sides?

3. For combat purposes, battle wagons fighting on their long edge count as two bases side by side. If fighting on a short edge they count as one base. Page 92 says that in melee battle wagons treat a side in contact with enemy as their front rank for combat, but the FAQ says that they have to split dice between sides if contacted on a long edge and short edge. Isn't this a contradiction?

This should answer both questions as well as others:

BWGs and Close Combat: In both Impact and Melee, a BWG is treated as if two 40mm-square bases, each rolling 2 combat dice. Charges against a BWG never count as flank/rear charges (so inflict no cohesion loss) and BWG is never “fighting enemy in 2 directions.” All sides are effectively frontal in Melee, so each base splits dice among the sides on which it is fighting an enemy front edge. The result is similar to the usual situation of a front ranker fighting frontally while the rear base turns and fights the flank attacker. . . .

This is from the fairly complete guide to battle wagon usage at Tip 952 of viewtopic.php?t=6832.

[Aetius]

Having a 28mm Hussite and searcing longingly for a set of rules where they work, I was keen to try out FoG.
Whilst I am one of the firmest advocates of War Wagons NOT being able to move and fight, one thing that did appear odd to me was the ability to 'pin' war wagons.

Am I right in thinking that if I advance on a moving war wagon with a Battle Group of Light Horse, as the War Wagon cannot charge or initiate combat the light horse to my front effectively stop my wagons advancing? I can shoot at them or advance to within a 'whisker' of them, but unless they do something silly (like charge me or fail a test or move away) I am effectively pinned?

Personally I'd prefer to see Hussite lists with the wagons as purchased and placable 'terrain pieces' with the crews bought to man them - but hey that would be far too radical! )
Cheers

Mark

[SirGarnet]

Am I right in thinking that if I advance on a moving war wagon with a Battle Group of Light Horse, as the War Wagon cannot charge or initiate combat the light horse to my front effectively stop my wagons advancing? I can shoot at them or advance to within a 'whisker' of them, but unless they do something silly (like charge me or fail a test or move away) I am effectively pinned?

Skirmishers don't restrict non-Skirmishers, but they might physically get in your path and you would need to shoot them off if your non-wagon troops were elsewhere. Stopping the wagons to shoot it out seems to me to be be what the wagons are looking for.

[Aetius]

Thanks - so we could end up with a traffic jam ... OK
Marjk