Need evaluators for a new campaign

[conboy]

Erik, ColonelY,
Hope you guys are making it through San Fratello and Brolo. That's a long one.

Erik, thanks for pointing out the exit hexes for German aircraft -- I left them out because I don't want them coming back and harassing the units after they got off the beach. Is there a better way for this? Certainly open to suggestions! The way it is now does look a little clunky.
BTW, when you upgraded your Heavy Infantry, supply took away your 50-cal on the half-tracks (M3A1s weren't available yet). They are useful in running down very weak retreating units.
I did not use Arid. Would it make a noticeable difference?
I am not using the specializations panel -- we only have a few kinds of units and I provide the specializations on schedule (although I fail in a couple of places, as you have pointed out).

ColonelY,
Thanks for the nod on presenting the combat flow as it generally occurred. There was no desperate fight at Palermo, as you know, and some garrisons were surrendering as soon as the 3d ID showed up. I have tried to stay generally true to the battle ebb and flow but I diverge in some cases. Regarding RCT routes -- the players have every right to pursue the objectives in their own manner, and are free to disregard them. BUT, 1) Following the route markers is the most likely way to win the scenario, and 2) they show (essentially) how the battles flowed. They are based on the historical battle maps and I designed the combat flow around the map routes (it's an easy way to design a scenario). In the course of this campaign, I found that it was difficult to substantially improve upon history's course, although I tried in a couple of places -- your call as to whether or not I was successful.

thanks again!
conboy

[Erik2]

AI aircraft that leave the map does not re-enter, even if everything is set up to allow this.
It just looks better that having them bump against the map edge like a wasp against your window pane.

[conboy]

bump against the map edge like a wasp against your window pane

I love that analogy!

thanks

[ColonelY]

Back to 2 Lica:

I've just made another test to check something... well, as we've 3 evac hexes, but only a single hex to redeploy, what about adding another hex for redeployment?

(We can evac our bombers if our airstrip is not ready, whether on purpose or not. Then we can call them back, it's working. But our "low(est)-fuel" bombers, we have TWO of them...)


3 SanF:

Erik, ColonelY,
Hope you guys are making it through San Fratello and Brolo. That's a long one.

Yope, this one is indeed longer than the previous scenarios!

So here are various elements that I've noticed:

Related to briefing:
1. What about "so their main force can escape us" instead of "so the main force can escape"?
2. About highlighting areas during briefing: Maybe directly over the western land portion, our starting position at the beginning and then (i.e. when brief. S-3 continuation) back to where it is now, showing one of the two "Bernard Force Route"...
3. Two rivers to cross are mentionned... But I see more than two rivers on the map, so actually which are they? To give the player a hint, you could maybe "simply" add a flag with the name of these two famous rivers on the map... (And only those two that are mentionned within the briefing. )

Although not necessary, 'could add counters (each time there is, of course, more than one obj to capture) as well as some reward for the sec. obj. completion.

About the resistance spot just East from town of Caronia:
1. There is an hex which should be on enemy control (really easy to see from start, even with the fog of war)... you know, the one on the road with some extra supply as well and a nasty surprise...
2. By the way, do we really need this supply output?
3. The 2 cm Flak 38 should really cover the 3 arty... Therefore, this AA-gun should be placed maybe just on this actually somehow strange hex, thus the "nasty surprise" one hex westwards but still along the road, and maybe the AT-gun following this motion...
4. Increase the aggressivity of this AT-gun... one tank moves just close-by, thus discovering it, but the enemy doesn't even take this (easy) shot, although my tank organization level was not optimal at that time (it was yellow!)...

Fine that we have a recon plane. But I find it rather slow to move at the beginning (compared to how fast our land troops can advance)... so, what about actually deploying our recon plane already several hexes more eastward?

Ok, so the bombers of the previous scenario have been added to our core forces (with their damages, that's perfect!)... but the "construction group" as well, apparently, that's why we have an useless airstrip in our reserve unit roster ... This one should be removed!

In terms of naval support, we're fine. At first, I was about to ask for some naval support (like few destroyers) at the beginning, but it comes later, so it's fine as it is.
Although, to increase the challenge, what about adding an aggressive German submarine somewhere nearby?

Special Event "71st Div Withdrawing" => Now the text is like this: "Elements of the 71st Mechanized Division are observed withdrawing to the East. We'll probably see them again."
1. Actually, I would prefer it with these two little additions: "Elements of the German 71st Mechanized Division are observed withdrawing to the East. We'll probably see them again later."
2. Then, the names that appear for some of the German units are "only" the "29th PzG" and the "15th PzG"... and I've mainly seen several units named "29th PzG" moving eastwards... nothing directly named "71st (something)"... So I assume that this "29th PzG" is actually a regiment of this 71st Mechanized Division. Therefore, if I'm not mistaken on this point, then the text could become maybe something like: "Elements of the German 71st Mechanized Division (like for example its 29th PzG Regiment) are observed withdrawing to the East. We'll probably see them again later."

Some "cleaning" of deploy hexes:
1. You should certainly remove the deploy hexes near the beaches (the two sets of them!), for they can be confusing: shall one already put some units in there? Definitely not a good idea strategically, BUT... (And for the proper landings, they will come later anyway, so...)
2. Then, there are 4 land deploy hexes in the southern part of the map... with no supply output! Any unit deployed there will directly be out of supply (except our recon unit) and with a max of four units "only", they will anyway be severely outnumbered. In short, annihilated for nothing if deployed there! If you really wish to use them, you could add some supply output, but I do think it's really better to just remove as well these land deploy hexes (and more coherent with the briefing as well) - or to remove at least "only" 3 of them (they are 4 in total), so maybe leaving the possibility for the player to put there its recon unit (which can act without supply), if he wants to play it that way...

Well, although I've achieved the Major Victory few turns before the limit, I've actually (completely) messed up the 2nd beach landing...
The event which appears reads: "Assemble all Bernard Force units at the beach and water's edge to prepare for another amphibious assault. Replenish and depart within 3 US turns from now. |Sail northeast to Brolo via sea hex.|25 RPs provided for Bernard force replenishment.|(Use destroyers to get off beach if needed.)"
Well, at that time, most of the Bernard Force units were not far away from Sant'Agata... which has no harbor! I hope the "depart" doesn't mean going on ships, otherwise it may be difficult to respect the expectation of "within 3 US turns"... So, these units were around Sant'Agata for several turns; I was wondering whether they were about to be removed from the map (maybe if on a beach and 3 turns later) before spawning a little later in sight of the Brolo's town... But no, that's not the idea!
So, a little delayed , I've finally decided to move them (by the main road, yes ) to join again the battle. Later I've used the harbor of Capo di Orlando (once captured) to send two of them by sea (and only one at the time ) while the two others go on by the main road. When they've actually landed, it was already on an area under US control... But the honor's still safe, as the "Bernard Force Objective" has been taken by an infantry unit from the Bernard Force!
I think it was the right choice (except the delaying aspect I've made of course ): to embark the Bernard Force at Capo di Orlando (this map doesn't contain many harbors anyway), but these ships are so slow to move compared to the possibilities of fast motion by land... But then, if it was indeed the correct choice ( ), what about highlighting the harbor of Capo di Orlando once this event (prepare the 2nd landing, or something) does appear?


I do like this kind of defense; some parts of it can be pretty nasty and there is a good mix of units facing our troops!

Well, I think it's more or less all I can provide for this great scenario.

[conboy]

ColonelY,
Your comments are great! I take them in the constructive spirit offered, so thank you very much! Specifics:
2 Licata (revisited)
I'll integrate all your comments, except the one about the air exit hexes. I think I'll conjure an airfield down near the beach that can be captured within 10 turns or so.
Only thing is, I don't know how to make a counter that will count only Phase I objectives. Erik asked for one previously, I'm still baffled as to how to count objectives by phase. After I figured out this trigger in the later scenarios, I used it to avoid naming all the objectives and assigning reciprocal German objectives. That's really a time saver -- if I could figure out how to do what you're talking about for discrete Phases (or groups of objectives), it would be a great benefit to future developers to know how to do it!

3 Sam Fratello and Brolo
Related to briefing:
All your comments are good and they touched on some things that were nagging me as well. I'm disappointed now that I didn't go ahead and do them before showing the scenario. So I'll integrate them into the pre-fight warm-up.

town of Caronia
I like your comments. I'll integrate them. I just turned the AA into a rabid beast. I took out the unnecessary supply but I want to leave that surprise just like it is. I like seeing the bad guys get a taste of their own medicine.
I don't like submarines. I'll think about it though.

"71st Div Withdrawing"
All your comments are fine, thank you so much for pointing them out. I'll incorporate them all. The 29th was the Division that withdrew, not the 71st. The 15th Reg is attached to the 29th PzG Div. My mistake.

deploy hexes
Thanks for pointing this out -- I couldn't figure out why those ground hexes were glowing. The sea hexes were from another concept I had about how to get Bernard's forces ashore. I took them all out.

2nd beach landing
I really don't know what to do about this. I tried to put so many targets in the first landing zone that Bernard would have to stay there to kill them all, and then get on the destroyers which were supposed to remain there to cover Bernard against ground attackers.
Another thing, that sea hex Flag is not supposed to be awarded unless a Ground Force unit passes through it. Doesn't look like it is set that way. I need to warn the players to take the sea hexes with land units, and somehow get Bernard to hold at St Agata until ordered to board the warships for the next move.
I think I'll make another pop-up that says Bernard's first mission is to hold S Agata and destroy any units that approach it. Have them ready to redeploy to sea on short notice, and fix that sea hex so it can only be taken by an embarked ground unit passing through it.

But your comments are spot-on and I really appreciate your effort. This will be a much stronger campaign for your efforts, so thank you!@

conboy







conboy

[ColonelY]

[...] Also, the Gurkhas probably are a better fit for the Goums -- never occurred to me. Thanks!

You're welcome!

Hem, sorry, but I've missed a very little detail related to this (you know, English isn't my mother tongue)... it does seem that "Morroccan" actually takes a single R, therefore the unit name "Morroccan Goums" should be modified accordingly as "Moroccan Goums"!

[terminator]

Casablanca


Fedala, Silver Flag ?

conboy(6).jpg (166.3 KiB) Viewed 1886 times

This Vichy artillery with a good range would be useful more away from the beach and defending the gold flag:

conboy(8).jpg (303.44 KiB) Viewed 1886 times

It would be more logical for the infantry to defend the gold flag so that the tank can move:

conboy(7).jpg (239.7 KiB) Viewed 1886 times

[terminator]

Casablanca

Paved roads in the middle of the desert?

conboy(9).jpg (473.58 KiB) Viewed 1886 times

[ColonelY]

Well, watch out a bit: "downgrading" these roads should slow our advance... That, that's at least in theory but, if I remember correctly, it shouldn't be a problem within this scenario, as we have already enough turns at our disposal to achieve all objectives (for now even including a timewise margin).

[terminator]

Well, watch out a bit: "downgrading" these roads should slow our advance... That, that's at least in theory but, if I remember correctly, it shouldn't be a problem within this scenario, as we have already enough turns at our disposal to achieve all objectives (for now even including a timewise margin).

It’s been a long time since I played at the Sandstorm DLC. I looked at the first mission, there was no paved road in the desert.
By changing the type of roads, this could perhaps make the Casablanca scenario more challenging ?

[ColonelY]

More challenging? Certainly, yes.

And I think you're right, it is probably somehow too much, paved roads in a desert.

[ColonelY]

4 NewM:

-> Scenario descr: "7th Infantry arrives first in Messina at Patton's urgent demand." -> I would find it more immersive maybe like this: "Our 7th Infantry Regiment arrives first in Messina at Patton's urgent demand."

-> Briefing: "Breifs" -> "Briefs"; "they trying" -> "they are trying"...

-> Pri. Obj.: Could add counter and red arrows...

Nice MG-foxhole!
*******
-> I find it a little weird , or unusual at the very least , to actually be able to shoot at the Brits in this scenario, for even if it's a race for Messina, they are still our allies... Well, we have Patton's orders NOT to kill ANY of them, but... But it's fine like this - well, why not after all?

So, as test (on the 2nd time only!), I've eradicated all Brits of the map!!! And, guess what?, nothing happened (as event or obj failure or something)!
I do really think that you should at least add an event, triggered once the very first shot is taken against the Brits, with a sympathic text recalling Patton's orders and warning us for potential severe consequences...
Like this you can keep them "shootable", if I may say so , but there would at least be some sort of consequence and (in this case) somehow more immersive flavor to it... Well, "mistakes" on the battlefield may of course happen, but must be rectified, especially if it's for the sake of maintaining an alliance!
*******
Very small detail: On the road South from Rometta Maria, there is a single hex with paved road on a mainly non-paved road... 'could possibly be changed.

To increase the challenge, here's what I propose for this one:
1. As the Brits are going to encounter some mines on their way to Messina, add some mine as well (another nasty surprise!) on the road from Rometta Maria to our main goal, the city of Messina...
2. Add a regular German infantry unit as garrison in Messina itself...
3. Hide another regular German infantry unit in the village South to Rometta Maria... as orders for this unit, maybe when the Brits begin their advance towards Messina, then bring these Germans North towards us near Rometta Maria, thus delaying us a little... (If needed to win our race, the Brits will anyway be delayed by the new garrison of Messina. )
Well, of course these two units could start already a little depleted, if (really) needed to ensure a Major Victory achievable within the given amount of turns.

[ColonelY]

[...]
Only thing is, I don't know how to make a counter that will count only Phase I objectives. Erik asked for one previously, I'm still baffled as to how to count objectives by phase. After I figured out this trigger in the later scenarios, I used it to avoid naming all the objectives and assigning reciprocal German objectives. That's really a time saver -- if I could figure out how to do what you're talking about for discrete Phases (or groups of objectives), it would be a great benefit to future developers to know how to do it!
[...]

Yes, indeed. Sorry, I don't know how to. But I'm sure that several people within this forum know how to do it! Therefore it could be nice if they explain (us) this aspect.

[...]
I think I'll make another pop-up that says Bernard's first mission is to hold S Agata and destroy any units that approach it. Have them ready to redeploy to sea on short notice, and fix that sea hex so it can only be taken by an embarked ground unit passing through it.
[...]

Well, I was at the very first about to write that there is anyway no harbor at S Agata, then...

You know what? After reading this, I've just make a test to try to "embarked ground unit passing through destroyers or cruiser" in this scenario... It does work, but I didn't knew it! Great, so I've learned an useful tip. Thanks. So, yes, for sure a good idea indeed to add another pop-up there! Btw I may not be the single one not knowing this possibility.

[Erik2]

3 SanF:

Generally I think you should add specialisation points and commanders as rewards for secondary objectives. Spec points are particulary useful for air activities.

Are the red/blue army flags in the deployment area supposed to provide any info?

The airstrip is core and thus available for deployment

The (first) Bernhard invasion felt a bit too easy.
The destruction of the German transports were also quite easy.
The bridge was blown when a US unit were 5 hexes away. It would be more dramatic if the distance was 2-3 hexes.

'Landing Force...' message title too long.

There are a couple of core German units present.

Phase 3 may be split into capturing objectives and exiting x units.

Another good, medium difficulty scenario.

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[ColonelY]

(Well, I may have known about this embarking possibility, but I had for sure completely forgotten this.)

Two more elements:

1. About German submarine(s):

-> In 3 SanF, the player should be fine anyway with 4 destroyers at his disposal to seek and sink any enemy sub... The worst case would be if some of the Bernard Force unit is damaged on its way towards the 2nd landing area. But not that a big problem anyway, because at the first torpedo launched, several of our destroyers will certainly rush to deal with this threat, and we have enough RPs to reform any damaged unit within this scenario... So, yes it may be a little annoying to deal with an enemy submarine, but for the flavor and the challenge, well, why not?

-> In 1 Casa (with the potential "Amazone" German sub), same story: the player has several destroyers to deal with this eventual threat (no need to be uncautious while moving our carrier anyway). A submarine doesn't deal much damages to a destroyer (in principle at least), so the worst case is some damages on our aux carrier... But again, not a big deal since there is as well an airfield that can be captured on this map...

Besides, in 1 Casa, with an enemy cruiser "upgraded" as battleship and probably a new enemy unit underwater, there is always the possibility to grant the player with another destroyer if really needed to not unbalance this sea battle.

Suggestions of starting locations: North-East of Casablanca (with the possibility to threaten the carrier if it moves a little too far) in 1 Casa, & in 3 SanF North-East of Capo di Orlando (with the possibility to damage the supply ship or one of the transport ships on their way towards their 2nd landing zone)


2. About the French units roster in OoB, more precisely about the French battleship Jean Bart and the "Moroccan Goums" unit...

Just in case, remember this trick:
First select the unit from some faction's list (unlocked from the Scenario Settings within the Scenario Editor), then change the flag to any faction (like the France faction for us here) prior to placing it on the map.
(Thanks bru888 and Zekedia222! )


So, for the Jean Bart, an American battleship model would be perfect, whereas for the "Moroccan Goums" unit, it's a British model of Gurkhas that would be optimal... And our "Goums" doesn't need to be mechanized! (See the pictures of them I've presented via links.)

[ColonelY]

3 SanF:

Generally I think you should add specialisation points and commanders as rewards for secondary objectives. Spec points are particulary useful for air activities.

Are the red/blue army flags in the deployment area supposed to provide any info?

[...]

I agree about the spec pts.

About the army flags, well yes, it's highlighting where in principle you should deploy your units (to stick as close as possible to history, if I'm not mistaken)...

But Erik, I'm a little worried about the picture of your post... with 32/34 and 32/40 they are considered as achieved?! Maybe it's just some "display" issue - I haven't encountered any problem with these counters during my playthrough, but...

[ColonelY]

[...]
Only thing is, I don't know how to make a counter that will count only Phase I objectives. Erik asked for one previously, I'm still baffled as to how to count objectives by phase. After I figured out this trigger in the later scenarios, I used it to avoid naming all the objectives and assigning reciprocal German objectives. That's really a time saver -- if I could figure out how to do what you're talking about for discrete Phases (or groups of objectives), it would be a great benefit to future developers to know how to do it!
[...]

Yes, indeed. Sorry, I don't know how to. But I'm sure that several people within this forum know how to do it! Therefore it could be nice if they explain (us) this aspect.

Well, it seems that some explanation(s) may be nice... Some hint thereupon, someone?

[Erik2]

4 NewM:

This small, quick and fairly easy scenario was a nice change of pace.
The US forces cannot afford to be idle with only 11 turns to reach Messina.
Maybe remove/reduce the minefield on the road as this was the main reason the British were held back.

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[Erik2]

Looks like we're only able to upgrade infantry (?).
I'll put the testing on hold for now.

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[conboy]

All evaluators,
5 Sale (Salerno) S-1 (Admin) brief says turn in your old towed artillery, towed AA, and the M3 tank (disband). You'll get the RPs.
Then in your Reserve box, there should be 3 new Priests (one for each RCT) to replace the old towed artillery, two new GMC15s to replace the towed AA, and a Sherman Tank with a veteran crew to replace the M3.
This is the biggest upgrade, but read the S-1 (Admin) section of the brief each scenario because it notifies you of upgrades in your Reserve box.

I did it this way because the infantry division configuration was controlled all the way through the war and equipment provide was the same. Unfortunately, divisions that were in constant combat like the 3d ID only sporadically saw the new equipment that newer divisions were showing up with. I tried to make them available to the players as they became available in the game (per .csv file?)

The scenarios are balanced with the equipment and experience mix provided.

I have absolutely no objection to another developer taking these scenarios and opening them up to non-historical configurations and opportunities. I'll play them myself!

But that's not the way I set this campaign up. I wanted to show at least some effort and a nod toward the historical US Infantry Division configuration.

thanks,
and please keep awn keepen awwwn!*

conboy

*that means "please persevere in this endeavor"