Flame tank uses?

[FunPolice749]

So having tried a couple campaigns going through various branches of the main campaign (and dipping my toe into multiplayer) I’ve been unable to find an actual use for the several flame tanks throughout the game. They lack any close defense so they are awful in close terrain (pioneers are just way better in those instances) and in the open other tanks often have similar soft attack and those can hold their own against other armored units. The only place I’ve found flame tanks useful is either assaulting fortifications (the ground tile) or attack stuff like AA guns/artillery that are heavily entrenched. This just seems like such a niche use for what ends up being several units.

Is there something I’m missing or do they actually just fail to find much use? If it’s the later then is a possible buff in order? They absolutely should not be mobile pioneers but maybe they could have a trait that gives the more attack against infantry or maybe a higher initiative? That would at least make it so they deal a solid amount of damage when fighting infantry which seems to be something they are kinda meant for yet struggle against.

[SineMora]

They are pretty terrible in general, yes, with the saving grace of OT-34s having decent stats for the # of core slots they require, but that's about it. With the right heroes they will likely be your strongest units, as a 15-strength Flammpanzer with Vigilance or No Retaliation and Rapid Fire will kill practically any soft target in close terrain outright 3 times a turn, nullifying any challenge, but on their own they don't offer much.

[gokkel]

I only use them if I have fitting heroes for them (the one that prevents Close Defense from being applied for example), like SineMora mentioned. In my last playthrough I did not get such a hero so I didn't use them at all, but in my previous playthrough I had the Close Defense hero and put that on a Flame tank to great effect. But even then, it does not seem outrageous compared to some other things heroes allow you to do.

[PoorOldSpike]

I compiled this chart if anybody's interested..




Churchill Crocodile, St.Joost, Holland Jan 1945-



Sherman flamethrower, Okinawa-

http://www.mission4today.com/index.php? ... orum&f=134

[Schlack]

They are pretty terrible in general, yes, with the saving grace of OT-34s having decent stats for the # of core slots they require, but that's about it. With the right heroes they will likely be your strongest units, as a 15-strength Flammpanzer with Vigilance or No Retaliation and Rapid Fire will kill practically any soft target in close terrain outright 3 times a turn, nullifying any challenge, but on their own they don't offer much.

Most other tanks will have better attack values, so with those heroes any tank is a monster siege unit. Try it with a Vigilance & ignores entrenchment & steamroller. Very OP for the city maps, can clear out 4 or 5 units in a turn.

One use I have found for the flameboys is as reasonably cheap bait. AI seems to love to attack them as weaker unit, so put them in a defence line with AT support - for maximum cheese put the camouflage hero on the AT (tank killer and expert support for uber AT). AI will repeatedly attack the weaker and forget that the AT is there. This is negated by enemy recon units who can spot them.

[SSLConf_pewp3w]

Most other tanks will have better attack values, so with those heroes any tank is a monster siege unit. Try it with a Vigilance & ignores entrenchment & steamroller. Very OP for the city maps, can clear out 4 or 5 units in a turn.

But the same goes for non-flame tanks.

[Horseman]

Most other tanks will have better attack values, so with those heroes any tank is a monster siege unit. Try it with a Vigilance & ignores entrenchment & steamroller. Very OP for the city maps, can clear out 4 or 5 units in a turn.

But the same goes for non-flame tanks.

But a non flame tank would need to use a hero to gain ignore entrenchment. And that one trait is the single reason to use flame tanks over conventional tanks. (IMO)

So if you had a vigilant and rapid fire hero. A conventional tank would still whiff attacking an 10 entrenchment unit. The flame tank would perform much much better.

[Schlack]

Oh i didnt realise regarding the ignores entrenchment quality of the flamies. might have another look at them so.

[Horseman]

Oh i didnt realise regarding the ignores entrenchment quality of the flamies. might have another look at them so.

I really must try them out again at some point - I never liked them in PC1. But I still fear without a Vigilance hero they'll still be poor at attacking into close terrain.

[FunPolice749]

Oh i didnt realise regarding the ignores entrenchment quality of the flamies. might have another look at them so.

I really must try them out again at some point - I never liked them in PC1. But I still fear without a Vigilance hero they'll still be poor at attacking into close terrain.

This is my general opinion on them. Flame tanks essentially are only good against AA or Artillery in heavily entrenched positions or against infantry in fortifications (so they can't use close defense). Outside of these scenarios flame tanks feel like bad actual tanks. I kinda wish there was a buff to them so they could better attack infantry in close terrain. I don't think close defense should be given to them but maybe an attack boost against infantry? It would at least make it so a 10 health flame tank is dealing respectable damage against infantry instead of dealing like 4-5 damage and taking that same amount in return. I also don't think units should really be balanced with heroes in mind because a lot of units get broken with the right couple heroes so I would prefer to see a buff to flame tanks so they are more appealing without needing to rely on heroes.

[Retributarr]

Sherman Flame Thrower Tanks in WWII Pacific
https://www.bing.com/search?q=Sherman+F ... RS=CHECKED
The Sherman first fought with the Marines at the battle of Tarawa in November 1943.(40) The Sherman was the most powerful tank used in the Pacific Theater, and it proved devastating against Japanese armor. Light and medium tanks mounting flame throwers also proved useful as close assault weapons.

https://www.quora.com/Why-didn-t-the-US ... during-WW2
The US did use flamethrowers in Europe during WW2:
Fabio Daniele, Passionate collector of stories
Answered Jun 5, 2018
They actually did, but in very small numbers. Flamethrower in continental warfare has a specific use only against fortifications (such as bunkers in Normandy during Operation Overlord) and in urban areas (extensively used by the Wehrmacht during the Warsaw Uprisings of 1943 and 1944)

In Europe, given the nature of mobile warfare, flamethrowers were preferred on tanks and service vehicles:

Pacific Theatre Usage of Flame-Throwers:
In jungle areas, combat is a matter of meters, foxholes, ambushes and lots of vegetation, the perfect environment for such a weapon.
Detriments of Infantry Flamethrowers:
The actual range of a WWII infantry flamethrower was pretty limited, not to mention that it is heavy and not suitable for speed and prolonged combat.

[Catacol]

In jungle areas, combat is a matter of meters, foxholes, ambushes and lots of vegetation, the perfect environment for such a weapon.

Given this, and their devastating impact on infantry in close positions up to around 40m, perhaps an increase in the close defence value is the answer. They are no good in open terrain - no infantry unit wanders out into open terrain unless backed up by AT and Arty - and their design was to hit infantry targets in entrenched positions.

I'll run some tests - and like many things in the game mod it. Already I've tweaked conscripts, AAA and a number of infantry formations, the most obvious being the weirdly high close defence value of Volksgrenadiers which makes no sense at all. Flame tanks might be worth the same.

For multiplayer every unit has to have a function, else it is wasted. Players will have their preferences given how they like to play, but I agree that the flame tank is just something I would never waste precious prestige and slots on in a multiplayer game at the moment.

[adiekmann]

One of my favorite units that isn't well known or used is the Flame half track. It is under the tanks category, but only costs 3 core slots (6 when OS to 15 which I do), and already includes ignores entrenchment. Because they fall under the tank category, it also means they include tank traits like overrun. Therefore, they are true monsters against soft targets both in the open and in close terrain. In my experience, they gain experience super fast which of course only compounds their effectiveness. You do have to protect them in close terrain again infantry attack, and tank attack in open terrain. I usually put a "no retaliation" hero on it if I have one. Even in open terrain the AI likes to attack it with infantry and it always gives much worse than it takes. And lastly, it isn't very expensive either to replace loses. Once your unit reaches uber status and you're steamrolling over everything watch your ammo because it only has 3!

[Blade0]

Nothing too much without heroes. Just like IRL. Other tanks have the same or higher soft attack and better armor, these are just a bit cheaper if at all.
The point begins when you can somehow stop the enemy soft targets from retaliating. Then an over-strength unit can cripple or overrun any soft target unless protected by an ATG or heavy artillery. But these cases you can kill the ATG or artillery first, given they're not hard targets.
A 20-strength flame tank with the right heroes is devastating - and does that without suffering any losses, unlike pioneers. Pioneers are expensive, slow, and squishy.
I did a play-through with green army, delayed reinforcements, and trench slog. On the one-but-hardest difficulty. It would have been impossible to complete without one tank unit having no retaliation and ignoring entrenchment. And, I had no "ignore entrenchment" heroes, so I had to use flame tanks. (Yeah, dream on - if I had an ignore entrenchment hero, I could do this on a whole new level, with more ammo, mobility, armor, hard attack, initiative on a T-34 or Panther!)
Trench Slog is really annoying on the long run, while pioneers depend on a constant transfusion by elite replacements. The only viable option is a lot of patience, and a monster tank like I described above.