Take client state regions in a war? (bug?)

[MarkShot]

I have taken some client state regions in a war (in fact, all of them).

They neither show up in war score, nor a list of regions to cede. Nor in diplomacy as a nation I can negotiate with.

The seem to have no role at all?

[Pocus]

An enemy client state I gather, you did not liberate a friendly CS?

CS regions of your enemy should appears, if they don't, then please post the file here.

[wolfjesus]

An enemy client state I gather, you did not liberate a friendly CS?

CS regions of your enemy should appears, if they don't, then please post the file here.

Hi Pocus, I also met the same problem. I played as Judea and occupied some regions from Nabatene which was a client state of Egypt. But when I negotiated with Egypt those regions were not shown at all. Attached are the screenshots (can't upload save file here). What the screenshots show is the example of Arabia Deserta, which was occupied by me from Nabatene but not shown in the "cede region" list during my peace talk with Egypt.

Occupied Arabia.jpg (469.55 KiB) Viewed 2823 times

[wolfjesus]

Also during the same play-through I found Rome had become Empire at turn 34. Not sure if it is possible with AI, but I don't think it's normal.

[MarkShot]

Pocus,

I apologize.

Yes, it was a CLIENT STATE with it and the PROTECTOR as my enemy.

Sadly, I have no save file for you. However, I will next time.

[dodgy]

Pocus,

I thought this bug was pointed out a while ago in one of the other threads about the bugs with client states in diplomacy. I see WolfJesus has posted a saved game. If you need another, let m,e know and I will try to figure out how to transfer it.

In another thread I also pointed out that there appears to be a hard limit of 12 on the number of regions that can be ceded in a peace negotiation, which is far too low. I don't think you responded on that issue. Has that bug not been fixed either?

What about the bug where you can't request a province from an opponent in a peace negotiation if you capture the regions and form the province yourself during your war (also pointed out in another thread)?

Will we have to wait much longer for DLC to fix some of these bugs? The ones around client states introduced in the diplomacy update can ruin games.

[Pocus]

The bug mentioned by wolfjesus is fixed and will be part of the patch that comes along the DLC (in a few weeks).
Limiting clauses to 12 is a feature, not a bug. We did not felt you or the AI should be able to ask for more than 12 clauses at a given time. If you want to ask for more than 12 regions, then perhaps you should try absorbing the enemy nation.
The game is fast enough on many things that having to wage another war 10 turns later did not felt like something outrageous to us.

About provinces, you can ask one region at a time, but for now the engine has trouble proposing provinces that are not held anymore, it would require a lot of checking in fact and so a possible slowdown.

[Gnaeus]

Just found this thread. I don't think limiting peace deals to 12 regions works very well, especially when the provinces don't show up on the cede province menu. In my case, the previous owner is on the other side of the map and still owns 78 regions, so absorbing that faction will be a little challenging. Does that mean I'm stuck with the occupied status forever? If this is indeed a feature designed to slow down the pace of conquest, it should be made very clear in the documentation.

[poesel71]

IIRC ownership of a region will switch over to you after a while even if you don't have a treaty. You just have to occupy it long enough.

[Szut]

I may have a stepped on a similar issue related to the peace deal system.

I created the provinces while occupying territory with my troops during a war. These provinces do not show up anymore when I ask for a peace deals. However the regions grouped under these provinces are still available when negociating the peace deal. There is more than 12...

Limiting clauses to 12 is a feature, not a bug. We did not felt you or the AI should be able to ask for more than 12 clauses at a given time. If you want to ask for more than 12 regions, then perhaps you should try absorbing the enemy nation.

About provinces, you can ask one region at a time, but for now the engine has trouble proposing provinces that are not held anymore, it would require a lot of checking in fact and so a possible slowdown.

I'll guess I'll have to stay in war a little longer for now .

Perhaps it would make sense not to be able to create a province until the peace deal is agreed ?

I can provide the save game if necessary.

Anyway, congrats to the team for that great game !!

[Gnaeus]

Unless I'm missing something, there may be a bug in the "Occupied (War Control)" condition. I've held the Egyptian provinces for I don't know how many turns now and they're still in Occupied status. At the bottom it says "Duration: 1" but it never goes away. If the Occupied status went away, I wouldn't care so much about not being able to do a peace deal with their original owner.

[Pocus]

Cede province has some limitations currently, and lifting them would mean more intensive computing we are reluctant to have the game do...

War occupied renew each turn, so even if you see 1, it will remain at 1 indefinitely. It will never go away until peace is done or the other side completely gone or killed.

[Gnaeus]

OK, this isn't a big deal but it does seem a little odd to have the occupied status mali continue indefinitely in a 500 year game. After all, even the French (the Gallo-Romans, that is) seem eventually to have accommodated themselves to the Franks. Or for that matter, that an agreement signed by one overlord on the other side of the world would have the conquered instantly singing Kumbaya with the new overlord. I would think a gradual attenuation of the unhappiness with or without a treaty would be more realistic. Maybe worth a spot on the bottom of your to-be-considered list?

[poesel71]

I see this as a problem especially for MP games. If 'war occupied' is perpetual and the other human side just refuses to sign a treaty then you are stuck with a shitty region. The only way out is total annihilation of your opponent.
Even more crazy if the opponent has an ally and an army leaving of the allies land. Then you have to fight them, too. Probably a rare case but still nothing anyone could want.

War occupied should have a long but finite duration.

[Morbio]

I see this as a problem especially for MP games. If 'war occupied' is perpetual and the other human side just refuses to sign a treaty then you are stuck with a shitty region. The only way out is total annihilation of your opponent.
Even more crazy if the opponent has an ally and an army leaving of the allies land. Then you have to fight them, too. Probably a rare case but still nothing anyone could want.

War occupied should have a long but finite duration.

I agree, perhaps a diminishing returns impact? Example;
0-9 years: -10 malus
10-19 years: -9 malus
20-29 years: -8 malus
.
.
90-99 years: -1 malus
100+ years: No malus

[lostangelonline]

I see this as a problem especially for MP games. If 'war occupied' is perpetual and the other human side just refuses to sign a treaty then you are stuck with a shitty region. The only way out is total annihilation of your opponent.
Even more crazy if the opponent has an ally and an army leaving of the allies land. Then you have to fight them, too. Probably a rare case but still nothing anyone could want.

War occupied should have a long but finite duration.

I agree, perhaps a diminishing returns impact? Example;
0-9 years: -10 malus
10-19 years: -9 malus
20-29 years: -8 malus
.
.
90-99 years: -1 malus
100+ years: No malus

Completely agree and support a diminishing penalty. It was better how it was before the Diplomacy update. The update introduced these unrealistic gameplay situations (especially when you try to conquer parts of a large nation, like I am trying now in my 6-months MP game but the Seleucids deny me peace, even if I have 502 War Score right now, conquered 1/3 of them, and asked for far fewer WS worth of regions), because the permanent 'war occupied' penalty itself is unrealistic. There are plenty historic examples (even today) of wars that never actually signed peace for decades, but the conquered region is managed completely, just as if peace had been signed. Please change back to the 5 years penalty (or so) that was before the update (if not something better).

[Pocus]

War can't be perpetual because you accumulate war exhaustion (which has been hardened by a third in the upcoming patch), so everyone, even human players will want to make peace at some point.

[poesel71]

War can't be perpetual because you accumulate war exhaustion (which has been hardened by a third in the upcoming patch), so everyone, even human players will want to make peace at some point.

As I said a bit of an edge case - if your enemy has taken all your land and you live only as an army on allied soil war exhaustion won't hurt you much. That has quite some griefing potential.
Never happened to me and I hope it won't but that whole should be plugged.

[Pocus]

in Mp you mean, because in SP I think it should be easy to get a peace from the AI.

[poesel71]

Yes, MP. Griefing the AI is no fun