Why Encicrlement is confusing and doesn't work well IMO

[Mojko]

Can someone please explain to me why all enemy units are not encircled? There is no path to a supply hex as I control all of the map. Does border of the map act as a supply hex too?

[Kerensky]

Can someone please explain to me why all enemy units are not encircled? There is no path to a supply hex as I control all of the map. Does border of the map act as a supply hex too?

Yup you answered your own question. Border supply.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VpeMgW ... =emb_title

[Mojko]

Thanks

[Dorky8]

More Confusion

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/ ... 2029634242

[Horseman]

More Confusion

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/ ... 2029634242

It's not overly complicated to understand how supply/encirclement works be fair.

It's not like we're seeing 100s of posts asking why/How?

And considering YOUR issue is the way friendly units don't negate enemy ZOC in regards to supply this is hardly the same thing. I mean you DO understand how it's worked out, you just don't agree with aspects of it.

[Dorky8]

Sorry should have pointed this out before. Be sure to read the manu56 post at bottom.


https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/ ... 2029634242

[Horseman]

Sorry should have pointed this out before. Be sure to read the manu56 post at bottom.


https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/ ... 2029634242

I read that as him stating his preference that only units should stop supply and not terrain. And thays something I can categorically say shouldn't happen!

If he feels it's to complicated for some terrain to block supply I don't really know what to say.....yes those trucks can deliver supplies over the sea!

Sorry, still don't see the relevance to your desire to have supply traced through friendly units even in enemy ZOC?

Either way you're fixated on this being how it should be and have yet to present a compelling argument for it to be changed so I suggest unless you have that compelling reason we should probably agree to disagree.

[Dorky8]

viewtopic.php?f=464&t=98380

[Horseman]

viewtopic.php?f=464&t=98380

And how many people answer the question? It seems more people understand it than don't.

Nothing here suggests it's confusing or doesn't work. Just that one player didn't read how it works.

[Dorky8]

https://steamcommunity.com/app/1072040/ ... 574158163/

https://steamcommunity.com/app/1072040/ ... 941741099/

https://steamcommunity.com/app/1072040/reviews/

[Horseman]

https://steamcommunity.com/app/1072040/ ... 574158163/

https://steamcommunity.com/app/1072040/ ... 941741099/

https://steamcommunity.com/app/1072040/reviews/

Not sure if you noticed- there's more people replying to the question explaining (and in some unfortunate cases mocking) than there are people dumbfounded? You keep digging for some thing to prove your point and keep failing.

Yes the rules could have been better explained in game. But the rules are still fine as they are and still make sense.

[Andy2012]

Can someone please explain to me why all enemy units are not encircled? There is no path to a supply hex as I control all of the map. Does border of the map act as a supply hex too?

Yup you answered your own question. Border supply.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VpeMgW ... =emb_title

Okay, I am having the same issue in the Kiev map. I thought (with my OoB mindset maybe still in place) 'If I take all their supply hexes in the east, I can do the same encirclement move the Wehrmacht did (and you have to do in OoB in the same campaign mission to win). Manstein me! But after I took all the supply hexes after a daring flanking move and the Red Army basically had no supply connection to supply hexes or any supply hexes left, they still sat pretty in the trap I sprung on them. Forever.
Dont get me wrong, I still like the game and OoB had its issues with the Kiev map, too. But maybe you could re-think this edge of map resupply? I think it kind of ruins an otherwise cool move to win this mission in a non-grind way.

[SineMora]

Okay, I am having the same issue in the Kiev map. I thought (with my OoB mindset maybe still in place) 'If I take all their supply hexes in the east, I can do the same encirclement move the Wehrmacht did (and you have to do in OoB in the same campaign mission to win). Manstein me! But after I took all the supply hexes after a daring flanking move and the Red Army basically had no supply connection to supply hexes or any supply hexes left, they still sat pretty in the trap I sprung on them. Forever.
Dont get me wrong, I still like the game and OoB had its issues with the Kiev map, too. But maybe you could re-think this edge of map resupply? I think it kind of ruins an otherwise cool move to win this mission in a non-grind way.

Kiev is one of the easiest maps in the campaign in which to enact a grand encirclement; you have plenty of auxiliaries to use and the terrain favours the Germans (major rivers and thick forests are both impassable for supply trucks).



From my AAR.

If anything, the problem with encirclement is the lack of secondary instructions for the AI whenever it finds itself in such a situation, as it's currently too passive, but it's not difficult to make encirclements work if you understand the rules.

[Horseman]

I actually agree I'd like to see the "edge of the map supply" removed. You can get the same effect by placing supply hexes on the locations on the edge where supply would be coming in.

My only real concern with doing it this way is that it could then become pretty trivial to just drop a few para's and jobs done.

EDIT: Oh and Kiev is indeed pretty easy to complete a grand encirclement on. I'm generally poor to completely useless at that kind of play and still managed without a hitch.

[Andy2012]

Kiev is one of the easiest maps in the campaign in which to enact a grand encirclement; you have plenty of auxiliaries to use and the terrain favours the Germans (major rivers and thick forests are both impassable for supply trucks).


If anything, the problem with encirclement is the lack of secondary instructions for the AI whenever it finds itself in such a situation, as it's currently too passive, but it's not difficult to make encirclements work if you understand the rules.

I guess I will take a second look. As I wrote, I maybe have too much OoB on my mind. The supply system there is, at least to me, a bit more straightforward: Cut off or seize supply nodes, tanks and infantry go zapp...
I think I may have missed a hex or should drive up to all the rivers. (Not necessary in OoB)
Also agree on the AI thing. I always think 'Well, this is going to be a difficult position to assault. Will cost me dearly.' I move into position, end turn. Then the AI gives up its powerful, entrenched position and just impales itself on my fully supported troops. To be fair, OoB also had that issue. (Yes, enough with the comparisons already. I like both games. )

[Horseman]

Kiev is one of the easiest maps in the campaign in which to enact a grand encirclement; you have plenty of auxiliaries to use and the terrain favours the Germans (major rivers and thick forests are both impassable for supply trucks).


If anything, the problem with encirclement is the lack of secondary instructions for the AI whenever it finds itself in such a situation, as it's currently too passive, but it's not difficult to make encirclements work if you understand the rules.

I guess I will take a second look. As I wrote, I maybe have too much OoB on my mind. The supply system there is, at least to me, a bit more straightforward: Cut off or seize supply nodes, tanks and infantry go zapp...
I think I may have missed a hex or should drive up to all the rivers. (Not necessary in OoB)
Also agree on the AI thing. I always think 'Well, this is going to be a difficult position to assault. Will cost me dearly.' I move into position, end turn. Then the AI gives up its powerful, entrenched position and just impales itself on my fully supported troops. To be fair, OoB also had that issue. (Yes, enough with the comparisons already. I like both games. )

There are certainly times the AI is too aggressive and abandons good defensive positions to attack (Road to Moscow being one that really sticks in my head)

Other times its too passive and sits there letting you complete an encirclement.

I'll have to pick up OOB at some point - looks interesting

[Andy2012]

I'll have to pick up OOB at some point - looks interesting

Base game is free, DLCs have a discount right now, especially the older ones. I recommend the three Wehrmacht campaigns as a start. Also, our own master extraordinaire Erik ports all Panzercorps 1 campaigns to OoB for free. And there are quite a lot of free campaigns, too. No, I do not get commission.

[PoorOldSpike]

More Confusion

Sorry I'm not sure what you're asking, but remember all that Thick forest terrain blocks supply lines.

[PoorOldSpike]

I'll have to pick up OOB at some point - looks interesting

For the record the OOB supply system is more complex than PC2's because you have to keep track of exactly how many supply points each OOB base can provide, and maths was never my strong point..
On the other hand PC2 supply is much simpler, but the fact that any PC2 map edge provides supply is a definite unrealistic no-no like some guys have said and needs to be changed in a future update.

(PS: noob tip- Remember you can split PC2 units into two to throw supply-blocking cordons around enemy groups, fast-moving recon cars are especially good at it)

[Andy2012]

Kiev is one of the easiest maps in the campaign in which to enact a grand encirclement; you have plenty of auxiliaries to use and the terrain favours the Germans (major rivers and thick forests are both impassable for supply trucks).

Okay, I restarted from scratch. Again, around turn 10 I hold all river crossings and all supply hexes. My encirclement is even more complete than yours as far as I can see. There are swamps, major rivers and thick forests everywhere, yet I only get isolated encirclements of single units, not the big one I want. The AI Red Army has no supply hexes, no connection to the edge of the map (seems to be a shitty mechanic to me) but just sits there. I honestly think that there is something wrong with either that map or the encirclement mechanic. Because the way it is explained clearly does not work, as far as I can see.