Some thoughts on Bonus Objectives, General Traits, and some units

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FunPolice749
Administrative Corporal - SdKfz 251/1
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Some thoughts on Bonus Objectives, General Traits, and some units

Post by FunPolice749 »

After writing all this I realized it’s turned into a massive wall so I’m gonna put a tldr up here for people that don’t want to read this novel. :P
-Most bonus objectives don’t give enough reward for the effort needed to do them and I want buffs to the rewards
-Love general traits but would prefer some tweaks and adjustments to a couple and also really want to see more added in the future
-Flamm tanks struggle to against infantry in close terrain and feel to limited in use. I hope to see a buff that makes them better against infantry in close terrain
-The Panzer III N imo should have more close defense to offset it only having 10 health so it can real be the tank that works in cities
-Grenadiers needs a buff (maybe a trait like rapid fire x1.5) and I think Pioneres could go to 5 core slots so they remain powerful but also expensive to use in large numbers.
-Karl and Ghustav guns should have the suppression trait and then another trait that lets them deal full damage to structures so they aren’t just “kill anything it fires at”.

So I’ve been enjoying Panzer Corps 2 a crap ton already and have constantly been discovering stuff that makes me love the game even more. Stuff like the core slot system, different unit traits like rapid fire, and the fact that every unit type has an actual purpose is freaking awesome! There’s so many different ways to build a core force and still win that its kept me playing for over 300 hours already :D.

However there are some things that have disappointed me and wanted to give my opinions on. By far the biggest thing that I’ve disliked is how bonus objectives have been handled. Do note I haven’t gone through Africa but at least in the Early War and Russian campaigns bonus objectives felt underwhelming. By far the Dunkirk bonus objective was the best example of what I hoped for in bonus objectives but I haven’t found any that really have matched up to it because it gave a very tangible reward for doing so (it makes Paris so much easier). Do note I think the “win the war” bonus objectives are also fine since they are the barrier to get into alt history.

However, stuff like the Brest Fortress in Army Group Center or Kielce in Poland South offer such little payoff that it feels pointless to really do them. I’m not saying these bonus objectives need to do something massive but for the effort that needs to be put in, I wish the rewards were a bit more rewarding like the Brest Fortress giving say 500 prestige or something like that. Essentially, I hope there are changes to make the rewards better for the effort that needs to be put in to accomplish them.

Next up, I really enjoy the general traits because they can do significantly change how you play the game and I love that. It’s probably my favorite part of the game and I really hope that it is support with new positive and negative traits. I do hope to see some changes to various traits because there are some that end up boring or to minimal in its effect.

I think most of positive traits are in good spot but I personally hope we see a couple of them get slight changes such as trophies of war. Trophies of war is clearly meant to inspire players to capture enemy equipment and use it but it has ended up as pretty much a prestige maker and not much else. I think having a prestige maker perk for people that struggle with prestige management is totally fine but I think it drags why could otherwise be a cool play style down.

I thought it could be interesting if Trophies of War was changed to “Capture x2 equipment and captured equipment takes up -25% core slots”. Then combine liberator (more prestige from flags) with the double prestige from capturing units and rename that perk to something like prestigious and just have that single perk be the prestige maker. I think that could really incentivize some players to use captured enemy equipment more since core slots are really the things to hold back on using enemy equipment. Why use the Soviet 152 mm artillery when I can just use a 15cm and not worry about running out of replacements? Now that 152 mm would cost 3 core slots compared to the 4 slots of the 15 cm German artillery piece. Plus by combining the prestige perks into a single perk less experienced players can simply pick that single perk to maximize their prestige while letting other perks do more interesting things.

Negative perk wise I hope a couple like Trench Slog and Fear of the Unknown get a couple changes. Trench Slog is such a minimal effect when pioneers are the only unit infantry people are using. For -2 I would want it to be a bit more of a negative. Possibly something like “All friendly units have -2 close defense”? It would at least make an actual downside rather than the free 2 perk slots it is right now. On the other hand something like fear of the unknown seems to punishing to really be enjoyable to play. I can’t imagine going into Russia and going through the winter with that trait. Yet that only gives +2 points even though imo it’s one of the harshest negative traits you could pick.

I also hope we see more traits added to the game with future dlc. I had an idea for a positive trait and a negative one.
Positive: 3 points - “Will receive special reinforcements at the start of random scenarios” The idea behind this trait is that it would reward you with various units every couple scenarios that can either grow your core force for free or be upgraded into more impactful stuff. As the war goes on the units you could receive would obviously change and they would also notably come with some amount of experience (I imagine in like 1944 you could get like a Panzer IV H with 2 stars of experience but obviously this could be changed for balance). It could be an interesting way to keep growing your army even late into the war where it’s harder for 0 star units that aren’t the best units to exist.
Negative: -1 point - “Units cannot be upgraded to different unit types” This would hopefully be a minor one but would stop you from say converting that AA unit into an artillery piece or AT gun.

The final thing I want to talk about is a couple various German units in the game that I hope get some adjustments. Namely things like the Flamm tanks seem extremely niche in their uses and I hope there could be some buff to make them slightly more useful. Their lack of any close defense makes it unable to really thrive in close terrain and even when attacking it just doesn’t deal enough damage to justify it over a pionere. Essentially I hope we see something like a trait that gives them +5 attack against infantry so at the very least they seriously mess up whatever infantry it attacks because currently they seem to just not deal enough damage to really affect 15 strength infantry.

Next up the panzer IIIN is seemingly a really cool tank with high close defense making it one of the few tanks that could in theory fight in close terrain however because it normally only goes to 10 health it ends up losing most fights against infantry. I honestly want it to just have even more close defense (8 is my thought but maybe 10 is possible?) to really make it tough to damage for infantry. If it’s not able to fight tanks at the very least it should be able survive several infantry attacks and really be the “close terrain” tank it’s meant to be.

After that I like many others, want to see some buffs to the grenadiers and other infantry because the gap between them and pioneers is to great. I’m not much of a balancing person but maybe grenadiers should have some extra traits? Stuff like reduces entrenchment by 2 or a rapid fire trait would hopefully make them more worthwhile compared to everything else. Beyond that I think Pioneers should be a bit harder to wield in large numbers and maybe they should go to 5 core slots normally? That would make them still insanely powerful but definitely a drain on core slots if overused.

Finally, I wanna talk about the Karl and Gustav artillery units because I really am not a fan of them in the game. I know the common argument is to just not use them but to me it seems wrong that these units can deal so much damage to anything they hit. Personally I would want them to get the suppression trait and then another trait that lets them deal their full damage against structures so they aren’t just dealing 5 damage to whatever they shoot at. These big guns were built to smash major fortifications not chew up entire armies on their own and I think this change or something like it would put them more into that roll.
elven
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Re: Some thoughts on Bonus Objectives, General Traits, and some units

Post by elven »

I know that they have talked in other threads about the fact they are looking at Grenadiers getting buffed as a possibility already. Also, Normally I say to leave the Karl and Gustav alone for those who like to use them but I like your idea as a good compromise which leaves them in the game and powerful but also more realistic.
Hexaboo
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Re: Some thoughts on Bonus Objectives, General Traits, and some units

Post by Hexaboo »

Agreed on Karl/Gustav, restricting their efficiency to structures would make sense — both historically, and in terms of them not being a magic wand that just sweeps all your problems away (especially in combination with the 2x attack/2x fire rate heroes).
Rifraff
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Re: Some thoughts on Bonus Objectives, General Traits, and some units

Post by Rifraff »

Never had a problem with Fear of the Unknown and think it is one of the easier ones to get around.. Can be annoying after bad weather when there is a fog between your front line and airbases. But and I don't know if it was intended or not but you can re-base planes to clear the fog in between them. Otherwise you just need to play leap frog with your planes or send a near-by unit back..
BaronVonWalrus
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Re: Some thoughts on Bonus Objectives, General Traits, and some units

Post by BaronVonWalrus »

Just some random thoughts so far:

My "learn to play" battles were Poland to France, with heroes on. I got a random hero that gave me 50% slot cost for their unit, allowing me to field a 210mm artillerie piece for 3 slots.......I used it and honestly felt that this was "too gamey" and restarted what's now become my proper playthrough campaign with no heroes. Of course, other people's mileage on heroes may vary :-)

So, we have on General diffculty:

No Heroes
25% randomness

For:
Infanterie General
Panzer General
Industry Connections
Liberator (I'm new to PzC so thought I'd need the prestige!)
Deadly Grasp

Against:
No overstrength
Slow modernisation
Trench Slog (and I'm not using only pionieres as my inf units)

These settings feel great for me personally, to be honest. If I "get good", then a future playthrough could be without the Liberator trait for sure. I've fired up one of the scenarios and I ran out of deployment hexes before I ran out of slots, so perhaps I need to think in terms of elite / overstrengthed units for those standalone battles!
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