Winter War 1940 Beta Test

[Erik2]

13TuppuraIsland: Second trial...
...
A last suggestion: what about adding some (re)deploy hexes? Otherwise, if an unit is destroyed or removed on purpose, then as it is now it can't be replaced at all...

There's a single deployment hex at the south edge of the map.
But I agree, it would be nice to have maybe 2 hexes down south and another 2 to the west.

[bru888]

One more scenario to go for each of you . . . Viipuri.

[ColonelY]

13TuppuraIsland: Second trial...
...
A last suggestion: what about adding some (re)deploy hexes? Otherwise, if an unit is destroyed or removed on purpose, then as it is now it can't be replaced at all...

There's a single deployment hex at the south edge of the map.
But I agree, it would be nice to have maybe 2 hexes down south and another 2 to the west.

A single deployment hex at the south edge of the map? Oops, I missed it, then! (And "lost" a heavy inf in the process... )

Thanks

[ColonelY]

One more scenario to go for each of you . . . Viipuri.

Yes, it will be (relatively ) soon...

[ColonelY]

Viipuri:

Nice! And it's really great to find again our armored trains!


Guess what? I think that this scenario is now (a little) too easy...
*******
For me at normal difficulty (as usual, so at level 3):
Around the 9th turn, the Soviets begin to seriously lack some steam, at the end of my 12th turn the remaining Soviets were on overall in really bad shape and the scenario was finished just before the turn 17, with all Soviet land troops having been like disintegrated and their airfield taken! (Fortunately, it's not required, in this case, to wait until the end of the 36th turn!)

Strategy:
I've decided to use the bunker line and to defend it by concentrating all my troops behind these bunkers... I pushed on my left flank while trying to hold in the center and on my right flank. My left wing managed to decimate the Soviets in front of it and to make them really retreat before pushing forward, while the others managed to hold! Then my left wing has continued to pursue the remaining decimated Soviet units and has massively started to move southwards to seal off the day!

Several experienced ski troops have gone down (of course!), but were reformed just after and directly deployed not far away from the front, I mean around the town in the center (I don't remember its name, though)...
*******
As said in previous scenarios, the Soviet artillery tends to stay put even if it has no target - and thanks to our recon planes, it had often no target at all, all troops staying carefully at least just out of range - except when rushing towards them to deal with them once and for all! To increase the challenge a little bit, this artillery should definitely advance when seeing no target... two or three hexes more would have been largely enough to fire at least on some bunkers...
*******
What about trying to force, if possible, the Soviet artillery to move forward when it has no target and when it's fully organized (seeing the amount of shots fired )? It would also be more coherent with an offensive stance...

I wouldn't shave off any turn within this scenario, for the Soviets should have the possibility (the material time) to reach Viipuri...

The Soviets DO NEED some help, so there is another idea:

What about adding an event around the turn 7 or the turn 8, something maybe like this:
"Semyon Timoshenko is displeased because the fierce resistance of the Finnish troops slows down too much the advance of his Soviet soldiers, so that if he does nothing the city of Viipuri will probably not be conquered in time.

As a result, Semyon Timoshenko has just decided to go himself into battle with all the last reinforcements he has managed to muster."
The picture isn't a problem - we have already one of him!
We can imagine another armored recon car, or maybe even a tank unit, with his name, plus several infantry units (mainly regular infantry, maybe even together with some guard infantry)... as well as a new sec obj to, let's say, "deal with him" or "kick his ass" (if I may say so) or something... (He could maybe escape on foot after loosing his transport mean, as another before him...)

Well, even if you decide not to involve him in person, this event (lightly modified accordingly) could still be used, as well as, most importantly, the Soviet reinforcments... Together with a little boost of flavor thanks to the event itself.

[ColonelY]

Ah, and I've forgotten about a last point: What about the town of Karjala? (NE of the map)

There is no (re)deploy hex there, nor an obj to hold (or recap) this as well, not a single Soviet unit moving towards it, no supply output either... well, this area looks somehow dead... An idea to involve it?

[Erik2]

13TuppuraIsland

Core units:
Ski x12, Hvy inf x9, Eng x4, T28 x1, 105mm Art x3, 122mm Art x1, 37mm AT x4, 40mm AA x5
Blackburn, Buffalo x1, Fokker CX x3

Message about air superiority should display at scenario start/deployment phase.

Maybe move the wall up one hex here, it looks a bit odd that you cannot use the road.

wall.jpg (165.22 KiB) Viewed 2966 times

Re the Canet gun in the 'corner'. Are the Soviets supposed to be able to actually get inside at this point after destroying the Canet?

corner.jpg (201.23 KiB) Viewed 2966 times

I found it impossible to save 2 Canet guns. To do this you'd need to move several Finnish units outside the fort quite early in my opinion. This seems a bit unrealistic.

The Soviet artillery is trailing behind the infantry and it looks like they acnnot provide support until after the attack has lost its momentum. Turn-10 and they are still not within bombardment range. Maybe move the artillery closer to the frontline at start?

The scenario kept spawning 'Wounded men' after the objective was met.

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[bru888]

The scenario kept spawning 'Wounded men' after the objective was met.

Like a zombie apocalypse! I will fix.

[ColonelY]

13TuppuraIsland

Message about air superiority should display at scenario start/deployment phase.

Yes, indeed.

[...]

Maybe move the wall up one hex here, it looks a bit odd that you cannot use the road.

Re the Canet gun in the 'corner'. Are the Soviets supposed to be able to actually get inside at this point after destroying the Canet?

I found it impossible to save 2 Canet guns. To do this you'd need to move several Finnish units outside the fort quite early in my opinion. This seems a bit unrealistic.

I do agree for the road inside the fortifications...

For the "corner", the question hasn't appear for me as the Soviets were only able to make a single land attack on the one of the extreme right (and without even damaging it)... I do manage to save all of these guns... You are right, to achieve this, you are forced to deploy a lot of troops outside the fort directly from start and move them in defensive positions, covered by many of your artillery pieces!

Unrealistic? Well, yes and no. Here your forces do use the fort more like a big "bunker" only; they are not supposed to be all inside anyway, for there are other objectives to defend outside as well...

...
The Soviet artillery is trailing behind the infantry and it looks like they acnnot provide support until after the attack has lost its momentum. Turn-10 and they are still not within bombardment range. Maybe move the artillery closer to the frontline at start?

The scenario kept spawning 'Wounded men' after the objective was met.

And I agree with these two suggestions too...

[ColonelY]

The scenario kept spawning 'Wounded men' after the objective was met.

Like a zombie apocalypse! I will fix.

Almost like it

[ColonelY]

Hey, I almost regret having eliminated the paratroopers the first time... Out of curiosity, I would have liked to see where/how they would have parachuted in the following scenarios.

[bru888]

Hey, I almost regret having eliminated the paratroopers the first time... Out of curiosity, I would have liked to see where/how they would have parachuted in the following scenarios.

As you probably already know, there are three paratrooper missions at the crossroads of 07Lahde, 08Muolaa, and 09SummaHardestDay. Of course, the player only gets to see one of these missions unless he goes back and chooses another crossroads path. Here are the locations of the paratrooper missions in those three scenarios:

07Lahde.jpg (690.03 KiB) Viewed 2936 times

08Muolaa.jpg (628.2 KiB) Viewed 2936 times

09SummaHardestDay.jpg (728.44 KiB) Viewed 2936 times

If the player defeats the paratrooper mission at this point, he sees no more for the rest of the campaign. If he fails, however, he will see two more: 10Kirvesmaki and 14Viipuri. Only those two, however. 11Honkaniemi, 15Turku, 12Lemetti, and 13TuppuraIsland were unsuitable for paratrooper missions for various reasons.

Here are the locations of the paratrooper missions in 10Kirvesmaki and 14Viipuri:

10Kirvesmaki.jpg (692.71 KiB) Viewed 2936 times

14Viipuri.jpg (709.26 KiB) Viewed 2936 times

All paratrooper missions are similar in size: 5 Soviet paratrooper units except in 09SummaHardestDay where the airdrop is into a swamp. In that case, I morphed the paratroopers into Soviet naval infantry units (guerrilla trait - impervious to swamp).

[ColonelY]

Great, thanks. Like this it's cristal clear!

At first glance, I think these paratroopers could easily have a disastrous effect in scenario 14Viipuri ... It should be less dramatic within scenario 10Kirvesmaki.

[bru888]

I will be finished soon with Continuation War 1941. I will put that out for beta, then return and work on this thread for WW 1940.

[Erik2]

14Viipuri

Core units:
Ski x13, Hvy inf x9, Inf x6, Eng x4, T28 x1, 105mm Art x2, 122mm Art x1, 37mm AT x4, 40mm AA x4
Blackburn, MS406 x1, P36 x1, Buffalo x3

There are 16 ACPs, but only deployment hexes for 12 ACPs at start. I think you can safely remove at least one of the aux Blackburns since the player should have a core air recon unit already.

The airfield on the left map edge could use a flag to make it easier to locate.

It was a bitterly fought battle for the first 20 turns. By then the Soviets were mostly a spent force and the Finns could slowly start counter-attacking. I think the scenario could be finished by turn 25.

The victory graphic was not displayed.

That wraps up this campaign-test. Great work, Bru.

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Edit: An odd thing happened after the campaign ended. This message appeared. Looks like the intro to Bootcamp (?).

pacific.jpg (74.42 KiB) Viewed 2835 times

[Shards]

The bootcamp issue is global and known issue, is on our list!

[Erik2]

I don't think the Finns would mind a little R&R on a hot Pacific island with palm trees and cold drinks.

[GabeKnight]

Winter War 1940 v0.90

A bit on hold at the moment? Well, now that my mod's updated, I plan to finish this campaign before I start with the RedSteel DLC (it seems to need some bugfixing first anyway).

Esentially I would say that Erik's and the Colonel's comments were quite spot-on with my observations of the first three scens.

I've imported my core from the previous campaign and that gave me all specs but the tank school, additional 10 spec points and all commanders. The Finns just have no real spec tree to begin with. No way to make any spec point awards attractive in this campaign. But that's just FYI, not an issue.

Also I'd suggest to reduce import core experience to 50% or less.

02HaukilaFarm

- briefing 3/4: "vehicles in the Raate Road", I'm not sure as this may be a location rather than a road, but I thought it should be "on the road"?
- Major victory text: " 'skiwork" " has only one apostrophe on the left
- good idea with the 100 RP reward instead of commanders, as RPs are in dire need to (elite) repair the high experienced units of the imported core
- I suggest some (delay) mechanic for the primary objectives' check to allow for the completion of the secondaries. I took all prim. obj. on turn 10 and at that time I had not a single secondary objective completed

03MakinenRoadblock

The general Vinogradov storyline was a good idea to add continuity. And I think it was sort of funny, at least your popup remarks were.

- please add one more air deploy hex for my recon plane (10ACP = 3 + 1)
- in my playthrough the enemy tanks didn't move, too, and remained static in the centre. I read it's a design decision to have them wait until the mines are cleared? Please change that somehow, maybe send them along the flanking roads or something? I've destoyed them similar to the way the Colonel did: Killing all surrounding enemy forces first, then move on them sitting ducks in the middle. Achieved the secondary objective on the very last turn.
- the general's armoured recon car on the other hand engaged my position somewhen mid-game and could be destroyed without problems

Screenshot 104.jpg (971.88 KiB) Viewed 2715 times

Anyways, I've managed a Major Victory on all three scens without any cheats, as always elite repairin' everything - you guys must be doing something right, then...
Great campaign so far, thanks!

[bru888]

Gabe, keep going if you wish. I am down to 4 Continuation War 1941 scenarios which will probably take me another week. Maybe less; certainly several days. Then beta for that and a return to this thread to follow up on your and their comments and suggestions.

EDIT: Here's a special assignment, if you will. Please see if you can take a different path at the Lahde/Muolaa/Summa crossroads than those guys did. I'd like all three of those scenarios to have been reviewed by at least one of you.

[Erik2]

I played all crossroad scenarios (unless I missed one in the cluster).