Early Scots - anyone use them ?

[Keith]

Hi all
I have just got the lead for my Early Scots army.
Just wondering if anyone else uses them ?
I am interested in how the MF offensive spear go ?

[vercingetorix]

I have used welsh armies extensively, which are also based on MF offensive Sp. They are good troops in terrain, outside of that, they are decent, but not great. They won't win the battle for you, from what I have seen from the army, your two strengths may be either to gradually wear your opponent down with skirmishers, and/or to use your thegns (i think) to spearhead your attack.

[SirGarnet]

Well, unprotected MF Off Spear They do appear efficient against armoured swordsmen types, denying lance and swordsmen and with a POA to offset the opposing armour in melee - and wasting no points on armour so cheap enough for 3 ranks with more in rear support for resisting power at the crunch point. IC for control and vs. shooting plus 3 TCs leading from the front of course, and uneven or rough rather than difficult terrain being ideal. Once you buy protection that costs a TC or a BG so it seems less appealing from my perspective (though I do like Armoured Spearmen, but that's different style and doctrine).

[Keith]

Thanks guys.
I'm hoping they do Ok , as the Thegns are limited to 12 in total and the BG size is 6-8 so I can take 2 BG's of Thegns at 6 each or a single BG of 8.
I think I'll opt for the single BG of 8.
The MF spear will be the mainstay units of the army , I 'm planning 5 BGs of 8 with some Cav and LF etc at 800 points.

[DaiSho]

Hi all
I have just got the lead for my Early Scots army.
Just wondering if anyone else uses them ?

Well, once you have them painted up you'll be able to buy them all over again for about 1 Shekel a warm body at the Slave Blocks once my Vikings have had a chance to get to them .

Looking forward to the game Keith.

Personally, I think the MF thing is worried over far too much. It is ONLY a bother if you lose. And then it's only a -1, which can be crushing if you happen to 'just pass' I find Offensive Spear is as tough as nails until it starts to go down and then it's all over red-rover. So you might find that it's over for you slightly quicker, but factors are on your side somewhat as are points.

Ian

[DaiSho]

Thanks guys.
I'm hoping they do Ok , as the Thegns are limited to 12 in total and the BG size is 6-8 so I can take 2 BG's of Thegns at 6 each or a single BG of 8.
I think I'll opt for the single BG of 8.
The MF spear will be the mainstay units of the army , I 'm planning 5 BGs of 8 with some Cav and LF etc at 800 points.

What are the Thegns. If they are armoured I'd be ok taking them in 6's. I was going to take my Huscarles in 6's, but prefer them in 9's (with rear archers). I personally think 2 of 6 would be better than 1 of 8, but try it and see .

Ian

[hammy]

The key to the spearmen is keeping steady. The army really needs an IC and 3 TCs. Make sure the key BGs have rear support and if possible work in BGs of 8 or even 10 (if it is allowed). 10s while tougher are harder to rear support as they need 5 bases not the 4 that 8s need.

[DaiSho]

10s while tougher are harder to rear support as they need 5 bases not the 4 that 8s need.

Well, 6 bases, not 5, as you can't get BG's in 5's. So it's even MORE wasteful. That said (without looking at the list) if you are allowed to have units of 6-10 then you'll be using the same sized units to give rear support (6).

Ian.

[SirGarnet]

10s while tougher are harder to rear support as they need 5 bases not the 4 that 8s need.

Well, 6 bases, not 5, as you can't get BG's in 5's. So it's even MORE wasteful. That said (without looking at the list) if you are allowed to have units of 6-10 then you'll be using the same sized units to give rear support (6). Ian.

The army will be using 6s anyway, and a 6-base BG 2-wide if properly positioned can provide 5 bases of rear support each for two 10 base BGs side by side in the front line. (See Tip 705 on rear support in the article below.) Try it and see! The trick is that the rear support position is fairly exact, and if the front line advances out of range the rear support needs to advance and wheel correctly into position.

Mike

[DaiSho]

10s while tougher are harder to rear support as they need 5 bases not the 4 that 8s need.

Well, 6 bases, not 5, as you can't get BG's in 5's. So it's even MORE wasteful. That said (without looking at the list) if you are allowed to have units of 6-10 then you'll be using the same sized units to give rear support (6). Ian.

The army will be using 6s anyway, and a 6-base BG 2-wide if properly positioned can provide 5 bases of rear support each for two 10 base BGs side by side in the front line. (See Tip 705 on rear support in the article below.) Try it and see! The trick is that the rear support position is fairly exact, and if the front line advances out of range the rear support needs to advance and wheel correctly into position.

Mike

I haven't looked at your example, but a column of 6 'whatever's' behind the join in two BG's give rear support to both without the need to wheel to fix positioning.

Ian

[hammy]

If the range is 6-10 then you either go with a mix of 6s and 10s or if there are some 4 base BGs available (cavalry are really handy for this) then they can be used in column to give mobile and flexible rear support.

I am still torn between 8s and 10s as an 8 base BG 3 wide has IMO some advantages over a 10 base one 4 wide.

[DaiSho]

I am still torn between 8s and 10s as an 8 base BG 3 wide has IMO some advantages over a 10 base one 4 wide.

Hi Hammy,

I wanted to run my Vikings in BG's of 10, but I'm no longer torn. I'm not allowed to, so that makes my decisions real easy

Ian

[azrael86]

Having used early Picts, similarly MF off sp, they go OK, but you need numbers. In theme they may struggle against HF, and more generally against massed bow (foot or mounted). As long as you get some terrain you should be OK. Worst matchups are likely to be 'similar but better' armies like Catalan Company. A viking ally could give you some HF.

[Keith]

How does this look ?



Keith McAlpin TC - - - - - - - 1
Nobles TC - - - - - - - 3
13 Thegns HF Armoured Superior Undrilled - Impact foot Swordsmen - 6
12 Thegns HF Armoured Superior Undrilled - Impact foot Swordsmen - 6
11 Scots Spearmen MF Protected Average Undrilled - Offensive spearmen Spearmen - 8
10 Scots Spearmen MF Protected Average Undrilled - Offensive spearmen Spearmen - 8
9 Scots Spearmen MF Protected Average Undrilled - Offensive spearmen Spearmen - 8
8 Scots Spearmen MF Protected Average Undrilled - Offensive spearmen Spearmen - 8
7 Scots Spearmen MF Protected Average Undrilled - Offensive spearmen Spearmen - 8
6 Scots Cav Cv Protected Average Undrilled - Light spear Swordsmen - 6
5 Scots Heavy Cav Cv Armoured Average Undrilled - Light spear Swordsmen - 4
4 Scots Archers LF Unprotected Average Undrilled Bow - - - 8
3 Scots Archers LF Unprotected Average Undrilled Bow - - - 6
2 Javelinmen LF Unprotected Average Undrilled Javelins Light spear - - 8
1 Javelinmen LF Unprotected Average Undrilled Javelins Light spear - - 8

[DaiSho]

How does this look ?

Looks good Keith.

My personal belief is that you can drop the 6 cav to 4. I don't know that the extra 2 bases is going to change anything, and they are still able to add 'rear support' to the infantry in a block of 4. They are very manouverable in 4's.

I think with the extra points you could use an inspirational commander (you'll probably have to sacrefice something else to do that) which I think is a very handy modifier to this army.

With rear support and an IC you're going to have 25" of frontage almost impervious to enemy shooting. Besides, surely Keith McAlpin has to be inspirational?

Ian

[Keith]

Keith McAlpin always leads from the front

I did have an IC in the original draft, but call me reckless or unlucky but I tend to lose a lot of generals , my last game I lost all 4 !

I can see your point vs shooting , but with the skirmish screen and mobile MF I should be able to get to grips the enemy shooting ?
I'll have to see how it goes.

[babyshark]

Hi all
I have just got the lead for my Early Scots army.
Just wondering if anyone else uses them ?
I am interested in how the MF offensive spear go ?

FWIW, Ethan Zorick ran the Early Scots at Cold Wars not too long ago. Came third, so they are not pants. To be fair this was at 650 points; YMMV at 800.

Marc

[vercingetorix]

The list looks good.

A couple things you might want to consider:

1) Taking your spear in 10s -- I would do this because you get better odds against shooting, and if you take your units only 4 wide, it will give you more staying power because you won't be going down to 1 rank after taking a casualty.

2) I would get some LH -- even if you only get one unit, they can be extremely usefull; especially against vikings

[ethan]

Hi all
I have just got the lead for my Early Scots army.
Just wondering if anyone else uses them ?
I am interested in how the MF offensive spear go ?

FWIW, Ethan Zorick ran the Early Scots at Cold Wars not too long ago. Came third, so they are not pants. To be fair this was at 650 points; YMMV at 800.

Marc

One thing I learned, as others have mentioned, is the importance of doing whatever possible to keep the Spear in good order. At 800AP I would certainly go for an IC. The Viking allies are also worth a look...

[Keith]

Thanks guys , I was thinking of running the BGs of 8 MF spearmen 3 wide to soak up the casualties , that would have the same effect to keep my ranks and proably spread the casualties over the frontage so one 4 wide BG is not taking all the hits ?

We are assembling the clans for a battle tonight vs an invading Viking horde. Will post pictures and a report