Enemy units escaping across the map.

[Horseman]

I think units get to retreat way too much in one turn. Sometimes it will take 4 or 5 of my units to kill one enemy unit as it will keep retreating, and I chase it across the map. Now I don't use mass attack as often due to my units needing to chase the enemy.

Normally I would dismiss your concerns, but I just finished Rzhev scenario, and the big challenge was retreating units - and healing. So much healing and retreats. If this is representative of the big scenarios I'm not going to bother. About as fun as watching paint dry.

Having not played that scenario I can't comment too much- but was there anything particular stopping you from eliminating units at a time?

[nexusno2000]

The playing field is much more level than the campaign, plus you start with only a few core units scattered across the map, so focusing firepower is quite hard. And oc no heroes (thankfully) or tricks like Perimeter Control and Flexible Command.

[MickMannock]

Yeah, scenarios are definetely harder than campaign, cause you have no cartoony heroes to help you out. Personally I like the change of pace and the challenge, even though some scenarios become a bit corny as to how they play out.

[nexusno2000]

Yeah, scenarios are definetely harder than campaign, cause you have no cartoony heroes to help you out. Personally I like the change of pace and the challenge, even though some scenarios become a bit corny as to how they play out.

I enjoyed the level playing field. But the scenario was not really difficult. It was AI spamming repair for 16 turns and the time limit that was the main obstacles. Got old pretty fast.

[Kerensky]

I enjoyed the level playing field. But the scenario was not really difficult. It was AI spamming repair for 16 turns and the time limit that was the main obstacles. Got old pretty fast.

Weird. You get a gigantic Soviet army in Rzhev. As soon as I saw how many units I had at my disposal, I was encircling the hell out of every German formation I came across. I have to say if you have trouble with enemy repairing... use new encirclement mechanics and stamp the problem out.

In fact playing Rzhev made me consider not using so much OS in my campaign playthroughs, because it just so felt good to have more total units on the map. Might have to trim my usual assortment of 12 OS units, and either have normal 10 strength units, and a very few hyper 15 OS Godzilla types for when I really need a major concentration of power in a singular hex.

[Mordan]

I think units get to retreat way too much in one turn. Sometimes it will take 4 or 5 of my units to kill one enemy unit as it will keep retreating, and I chase it across the map. Now I don't use mass attack as often due to my units needing to chase the enemy.

Normally I would dismiss your concerns, but I just finished Rzhev scenario, and the big challenge was retreating units - and healing. So much healing and retreats. If this is representative of the big scenarios I'm not going to bother. About as fun as watching paint dry.

a HEX game trying to be realistic must make compromises. Its a game. Those retreats now designed in PC2 are not offsetted by better attack abilities. The game has become a chore for me.

I don't want to waste 3 turns to dig out some dumb bridge engineers from a city either. I liked that with PC1, one infantry and one mobile artillery could take back a city in 1 turn. Arty the city, attack.. most of the time, infantry pushed out. take city! Game was fast.

[nexusno2000]

I enjoyed the level playing field. But the scenario was not really difficult. It was AI spamming repair for 16 turns and the time limit that was the main obstacles. Got old pretty fast.

Weird. You get a gigantic Soviet army in Rzhev. As soon as I saw how many units I had at my disposal, I was encircling the hell out of every German formation I came across. I have to say if you have trouble with enemy repairing... use new encirclement mechanics and stamp the problem out.

In fact playing Rzhev made me consider not using so much OS in my campaign playthroughs, because it just so felt good to have more total units on the map. Might have to trim my usual assortment of 12 OS units, and either have normal 10 strength units, and a very few hyper 15 OS Godzilla types for when I really need a major concentration of power in a singular hex.

I encircled all the units in Rzhev itself, so that went well...

But it's very all or nothing. Encircle and the AI is effectively paralyzed. Don't encircle and AI has seemingly infinite repair (and so did I).

It can be done, sure. I made it on my first try, on turn 16 thanks to a flame tank, but it wasn't particularly fun.

[Kerensky]

I don't want to waste 3 turns to dig out some dumb bridge engineers from a city either. I liked that with PC1, one infantry and one mobile artillery could take back a city in 1 turn. Arty the city, attack.. most of the time, infantry pushed out. take city! Game was fast.

I disagree. You seem to be remembering addon content from Panzer Corps. I specifically remember the base vanilla campaign was a massive slog of digging out position after positions of well entrenched defenders. There is a total of 1 Matilda II tank in the entire Panzer Corps vanilla campaign. The vast majority of enemies were entrenched infantry and artillery forces. It's not as bad this time around in Panzer Corps 2, but I can still feel it lingering. No enemy unit is ever en-route to a position. They're always where they want to be from the start, and thus digging in right from turn 1.

This is something that alternative design addressed in the Grand Campaign, and I fully expect to again be addressed in alternative Panzer Corps 2 design.

The reason the base game is that way, and why it is again, is because a more nimble and more mobile and more aggressive enemy is far deadlier to your first time player. Not a good first taste of the game to have. Imagine how many people would complain if their armies were getting mass encircled, when they don't even know how to encircle the enemy in the first place.

No, I am of the opinion the base game did it's job very well. It's an introduction to Panzer Corps, and serves a similar role in the sequel. It's up to addon content to take the game to the next level.

[superman81906]

You instantly lost all credibility when you complained that an outcome of an event is too reliable. Not everyone is going to enjoy wildly swinging RNG.

You lost all credibility when you said he lost all credibility.

[superman81906]

Can you seriously not kill enemy units? Do they always get away? And retreat more than once?

WAT????????????????????????????

[PoorOldSpike]

Can you seriously not kill enemy units? Do they always get away? And retreat more than once?

You CAN kill them but it requires a massive amount of firepower to grind them down to nothing in just one turn.
But usually we don't have enough firepower to do it in one turn which means they're usually able to retreat and lick their wounds and have a cup of tea to quickly recover.

[nexusno2000]

Can you seriously not kill enemy units? Do they always get away? And retreat more than once?

You CAN kill them but it requires a massive amount of firepower to grind them down to nothing in just one turn.
But usually we don't have enough firepower to do it in one turn which means they're usually able to retreat and lick their wounds and have a cup of tea to quickly recover.

Yes. After playing more non - campaign, I definitely have experienced the same. Unless you can encircle, then you don't have the resources to kill, and then it's healhealheal.

[Kerensky]

Yes. After playing more non - campaign, I definitely have experienced the same. Unless you can encircle, then you don't have the resources to kill, and then it's healhealheal.

As opposed to what, an AI that doesn't reinforce? Lots of people complained the AI didn't seem to be requesting reinforcements during Poland. Can't have it both ways, and I'd rather it request replacements than not.

[PoorOldSpike]

Yes. After playing more non - campaign, I definitely have experienced the same. Unless you can encircle, then you don't have the resources to kill, and then it's healhealheal.

Yes, it's almost impossible to blast a hole in the enemy line and pour through in dramatic blitzkrieg style because retreated units recover too quickly and are able to stand in your way again a turn or two later.
Suggestion to the devs for future update- Slow down the rate at which retreated units recover their strength and suppression.

[Retributarr]

Yes. After playing more non - campaign, I definitely have experienced the same. Unless you can encircle, then you don't have the resources to kill, and then it's healhealheal.

Yes, it's almost impossible to blast a hole in the enemy line and pour through in dramatic blitzkrieg style because retreated units recover too quickly and are able to stand in your way again a turn or two later.
Suggestion to the devs for future update- Slow down the rate at which retreated units recover their strength and suppression.

"PoorOldSpike: Slow down the rate at which retreated units recover their strength and suppression".
Terrific analysis!... Yes!... "Retreated Units"... which are in severe "disarray/disruption"... should not be 'Rewarded' with a lightening speed recovery!. Unretreated Units are or should be exempt from that penalty.

[Horseman]

Yes. After playing more non - campaign, I definitely have experienced the same. Unless you can encircle, then you don't have the resources to kill, and then it's healhealheal.

Yes, it's almost impossible to blast a hole in the enemy line and pour through in dramatic blitzkrieg style because retreated units recover too quickly and are able to stand in your way again a turn or two later.
Suggestion to the devs for future update- Slow down the rate at which retreated units recover their strength and suppression.

"PoorOldSpike: Slow down the rate at which retreated units recover their strength and suppression".
Terrific analysis!... Yes!... "Retreated Units"... which are in severe "disarray/disruption"... should not be 'Rewarded' with a lightening speed recovery!. Unretreated Units are or should be exempt from that penalty.

I'm not sure I like that idea - if they replace in situ then they're still vulnerable (close to front line and replacements come supressed)

As long as you're causing more than half the units damage then they're not replacing to full strength either.

I will fully disclose that I've not played and scenarios yet though so take what I say with a pinch of salt.

How are things in MP regarding this?

[PoorOldSpike]

Suggestion to the devs for future update- Slow down the rate at which retreated units recover their strength and suppression.

I'm not sure I like that idea - if they replace in situ then they're still vulnerable (close to front line and replacements come supressed)
As long as you're causing more than half the units damage then they're not replacing to full strength either.
I will fully disclose that I've not played and scenarios yet though so take what I say with a pinch of salt.
How are things in MP regarding this?

I haven't played MP yet and have only lightly dabbled in the scens because I'm finding the Random battle generator far more exciting..
My point is that no matter how badly beat up and suppressed an enemy unit is after you've duffed him up and forced him to retreat, he'll still be there a couple of hexes away next turn, having recovered enough replacements and suppression to totally block your breakthrough even if he consists of just a handful of cooks.
That's why I suggested a future update in which the rate of incoming reps/supps is reduced so that he can be brushed aside far more easily if he gets in your way.

Gen. Rommel said - "Concentrate strength at one point, force a breakthrough, roll up the flanks, penetrating like lightning deep into the rear before the enemy has time to react" but at the moment it's difficult to "penetrate like lightning deep" in PC2 because the enemy DOES react by regaining strength and suppression too quickly.

[Horseman]

Don't forget Pooroldspike that if that change is implemented it'll also effect the player- no more emergency repairs to keep a battle line intact or to save a unit that's in trouble!

I like how it works now but may change my mind after playing some scenarios but my gut instinct says it's all part of the game and needs to be worked around through tactics and strategy.

Would be interested in a MP view as well. IMO the game needs to remain consistant across the campaign, stand alone scenarios and MP.

[Dorky8]

You instantly lost all credibility when you complained that an outcome of an event is too reliable. Not everyone is going to enjoy wildly swinging RNG.

You lost all credibility when you said he lost all credibility.

Thank you Superman. I can't see how my post deserved this. really

[Mordan]

one issue is that units can heal very fast even if in the ZOC of one or two units.

unless its encircled, the unit just heals.

In PC1, you could blitz cuz you just had to put at least 1 unit close to it... 2 units was better, and 3 units was the best and you didn't have to encircle. here in PC2 your only choice is encirclement which sucks in MP. hardly possible.. terrain, rivers..

I hate it.

also units had to refuel.. attack it enough times and it lost a turn to refuel/ammo.. in PC2,, free fuel if not encircled... Horrendous experience in MP. I never did a single blitz in PC2 MP.