Free France Campaign

Moderators: The Artistocrats, Order of Battle Moderators

timberwolf15
Master Sergeant - Bf 109E
Master Sergeant - Bf 109E
Posts: 453
Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 9:17 pm

Re: Free France Campaign

Post by timberwolf15 »

ColonelY wrote: Fri Mar 20, 2020 9:34 am
gunny wrote: Thu Mar 19, 2020 8:49 pm The D-Day Landings on the Normandy beaches took place on June 6, 1944, led by 57,500 American soldiers, 58,815 Brits, 21,400 Canadians, and just 177 Frenchmen! A tiny but elite commando force the history books have long forgotten. [ might make a cool scenario ]
It would be a cool scenario, for sure. 8)

And later, after the direct Landings, the Free French had committed up to several armoured divisions to help fight the Germans. :wink:

More info here (only in French :? ): https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arm%C3%A9 ... mbattantes
This link presents us as well two nice maps: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... uselang=fr (Rhine and Danube: 31 March - 18 April 1945) and https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... uselang=fr (Rhine and Danube: 19 April - 7 May 1945)... Another nice opportunity to make awesome scenarios. :D
Good Find a google translator thing popped up and WHAM made it English I have zero culture I speak English but I do know how to find a bathroom and ask a woman in spanish some things.
ColonelY
Colonel - Ju 88A
Colonel - Ju 88A
Posts: 1519
Joined: Tue Jan 07, 2020 8:46 am

Re: Free France Campaign

Post by ColonelY »

Well, I think this one is better than Google translate, just in case: https://www.deepl.com/translator

Anyway, some parts (like the name of the units) must stay in French within the campaign... :wink:


What is good with this link, it's that it gives already some precise info but, moreover, it gives too other links :lol: related to the followings:

Italian Campaign, Battle of Garigliano (May 11-21, 1944), Liberation of Corsica (September 8 - October 4, 1943), Battle of Marseille (August 21-28, 1944), Battle of Normandy (June 6 - August 29, 1944 - could be only a few parts, of course), Battle of Paris (August 19-25, 1944), Landing of Provence (landing August 15 - junction September 11, 1944), Campagne de France and Poche de Colmar (January 20 - February 9, 1945 )...

Which should make for some excellent scenarios. :D
Zekedia222
Staff Sergeant - StuG IIIF
Staff Sergeant - StuG IIIF
Posts: 298
Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2018 9:30 pm
Location: Somewhere between Chattanooga and Anchorage

Re: Free France Campaign

Post by Zekedia222 »

Free French forces played a small part in the defense of Hong Kong
Klinger, you're dumber than you look, and THAT boggles the MIND.
- Charles Emerson Winchester III
conboy
Lieutenant Colonel - Fw 190A
Lieutenant Colonel - Fw 190A
Posts: 1167
Joined: Sun Apr 09, 2017 4:18 pm
Location: Lower Alabama

Re: Free France Campaign

Post by conboy »

There were Moroccan goums at Sicily with us 3d infantry division

Large formations of FFI in operation dragon

And in the fight to clear the Vosges

At least 3 colonial and 1 FFI divsions in final phase of Colmar Pocket (Poche de Colmar)

They did some serious butt kikken

conboy
Igor1941
Master Sergeant - U-boat
Master Sergeant - U-boat
Posts: 540
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2011 11:05 pm

Re: Free France Campaign

Post by Igor1941 »

ColonelY
Colonel - Ju 88A
Colonel - Ju 88A
Posts: 1519
Joined: Tue Jan 07, 2020 8:46 am

Re: Free France Campaign

Post by ColonelY »

8) I have ordered a book that I should receive soon (if there is no problem with what everyone knows :roll:):
L’apport capital de la France dans la victoire des alliés”, written by Dominique Lormier (April 2011)
(So, as title something like: “France's capital contribution to the victory of the allies”…)

Alas, this book (made by historians!) is only available in French right now… :evil:

My translation of the abstract:
An indispensable historical clarification.

Sweeping away the clichés conveyed by reductionist and partisan Anglo-American historiography, this work offers a complete and detailed panorama of France's military action during the two world conflicts. Based on the most significant facts, figures, documents and testimonies, it provides proof of the capital contribution of French troops in the Allied victories.

As early as September 1914, with the victory of the Marne, the French army condemned its German rival to war on two fronts. Throughout 1915, French offensives established the majority of German divisions on the western front. At Verdun and on the Somme in 1916, at Malmaison in 1917, the French army achieved significant successes. From March to April 1918, many French divisions twice saved the British army from disaster, in Picardy and Flanders. In July 1918, before the massive arrival of American reinforcements, the French army won the second Battle of the Marne, condemning Germany to a definitive defeat, due to the massive use of French tanks and planes.

The fierce and little-known battles in May-June 1940, particularly by the French air force, the forgotten battles in Africa in 1941-1942, the brilliant campaigns in Tunisia, Italy, France and Germany and 1943-1945 enabled the French troops to distinguish themselves in particular, not forgetting the decisive action of the internal Resistance, particularly in Normandy, Brittany, the South-West and the Alps
.”

Some elements which could already interest us (some for our campaign, some more just for our culture :wink:):

And my apologies, you'll have to make do with my English translations:

1. The May-June 1940 campaign would have been a walk for the Germans. This lie is an old Vichist antiphon copiously and regularly advanced by a certain Anglo-American historiography. Nothing is falser and more insulting towards the French elders.
- By putting 50% of the 1,559 German aircraft out of action, the French air force and the French DCA seriously obeyed German air capabilities during the Battle of Britain.
- By sacrificing themselves, alone, 1 against 5, the French troops, during 9 days, at Dunkirk, saved the British expeditionary force from capture. "The American historian Walter Lord, an undisputed expert on the Second World War, rightly writes: 'Many German generals consider the Battle of Dunkirk as a turning point in the war: if the British Expeditionary Force had been taken prisoner, Britain would have been defeated; if that had happened, Germany could have concentrated all its forces on Russia; Stalingrad did not take place, etc.'" (p.132 of this book!).
- French troops also destroyed more than half of the German tanks, significantly reducing the German offensive potential.

2. The Free French Forces played a major role in the fight against the Italian troops (as in Koufra) but above all, they valiantly illustrated the French flag at Bir Hakeim in May-June 1942. 3,703 French soldiers resisted on flat ground, offering no natural protection, to 37,000 of the most seasoned German and Italian troops, including the famous panzer divisions, Rommel's pride. "British General Playfair, the official historian of the Desert War, believes that the 'prolonged defense of the French garrison played a decisive role in the re-establishment of British troops in Egypt. From the outset, the Free French severely disrupted Rommel's offensive. The transport of supplies to the Afrika Korps was severely disrupted. The increasing concentration of Axis forces to pierce this abscess saved the 8th Army from disaster. (...) In the longer term, the slowing of Rommel's maneuver enabled British forces to escape the annihilation foreseen by the Axis. It is by this that it can be said, without exaggeration, that Bir Hakeim facilitated El-Alamein's defensive success." (p.241)

3. After their meetings (FF and "loyalist" French forces) the French Army committed nearly 400,000 men to the theatres of military action in Italy, France and then Germany. In Italy, the supreme commander of the German forces, General Ringel wrote, after the war: "(...) the man whom even the German command recognized as its most dangerous adversary in Italy: General Juin with his Frenchmen." (p.291)

4. Half of the liberation of the national territory is the exclusive work of the French forces (FF troops, Lattre de Tassigny's army, Leclerc division). On the specific subject of the Resistance's contribution to the victory of the D-Day landings and the decisive days that followed, the American General Eisenhower, Commander-in-Chief of the Allied Forces, acknowledged the important role played by the Breton Resistance:
"(...) I believe that the destruction of enemy rail communications, the harassment of German automobile traffic and the increasing pressure exerted by the organised forces of the French Resistance on German troops played a considerable role in our victory" (p.339).

5. "From the declaration of war in September 1939 to the capitulation of Germany in May 1945, the French army and Resistance units counted 255,200 killed. French military losses in the Second World War were almost as heavy as those of the United States (300,000 soldiers killed) and Great Britain (326,000 soldiers killed). The French army and the fighting forces of the Resistance can claim the disablement of 900,000 Axis soldiers (German or Italian), killed, wounded and prisoners, including 688,000 from 1941 to 1945 and 212,000 in May-June 1940. France's place alongside the three other victorious great powers is therefore not usurped, as the figures themselves bear witness". (p.461-462, always from the same book).


:!: Well, let's make it clear, shall we?

Here it's not about politics or something similar. But there is plenty of room to make this Free France campaign as "big" as one talking about the British or the Americans, if only in terms of the number of scenarios. :D I hope to receive this book soon and to find out relevant aspects/info for the future scenarios of this Free France campaign! :wink:


For this campaign, there can be a scaling issue… at the beginning it’s question of few battalions only, whereas later it’s about real divisions. :?
:arrow: So, now I’m more into something like this:
For the Dakar scenario I’ve written that I suggested something like 1 Heavy Infantry and 2 regular Infantry units to represent the “13e Demi-brigade de Légion étrangère” (so about one battalion)… but making the three of them core units will overrepresent this unit when it will come to real divisions. :idea: So, I think it would be better to make, let’s say, 1 Heavy Infantry as core and the 2 regular Infantry (all with a corresponding name) only as aux for the few first scenarios where this “Demi-brigade” has been involved.
Like this, later, once fighting at larger scale, this famous unit of the “Légion étrangère” can still appear but only with one single unit – our core (and named!) Heavy.
Erik2
Order of Battle Moderator
Order of Battle Moderator
Posts: 9593
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 12:59 pm
Location: Norway

Re: Free France Campaign

Post by Erik2 »

A large (and I really mean large) number of books by Dominique Lormier are available on Amazon Kindle.
Unfortunately (for us with only rudimentary knowledge of French), only French versions.
C'est la Vie :D
But easier to copy/translate passages...
ColonelY
Colonel - Ju 88A
Colonel - Ju 88A
Posts: 1519
Joined: Tue Jan 07, 2020 8:46 am

Re: Free France Campaign

Post by ColonelY »

Erik2 wrote: Tue Mar 24, 2020 8:10 am But easier to copy/translate passages...
Yes, fortunately. :D
Erik2
Order of Battle Moderator
Order of Battle Moderator
Posts: 9593
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 12:59 pm
Location: Norway

Re: Free France Campaign

Post by Erik2 »

Kindle book:
The French Army 1939–45 (2) (Men-at-Arms Book 318)
conboy
Lieutenant Colonel - Fw 190A
Lieutenant Colonel - Fw 190A
Posts: 1167
Joined: Sun Apr 09, 2017 4:18 pm
Location: Lower Alabama

Re: Free France Campaign

Post by conboy »

This is another VERY informative discussion. Thank you all for your considered, enjoyable input!

conboy
bru888
Order of Battle Moderator
Order of Battle Moderator
Posts: 6213
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2016 5:39 pm
Location: United States

Re: Free France Campaign

Post by bru888 »

Announcement: I have asked for Erik's collaboration on this project. We have agreed that a Free France Campaign will be our next project in the BrucErik Studio.
- Bru
Mascarenhas
Sergeant First Class - Elite Panzer IIIL
Sergeant First Class - Elite Panzer IIIL
Posts: 434
Joined: Mon Aug 21, 2017 11:45 am
Location: Brazil

Re: Free France Campaign

Post by Mascarenhas »

Applause! Applause! Vive la France ! Et vive aussi les artistes de ce jeu, Erik et Bruce!
bru888
Order of Battle Moderator
Order of Battle Moderator
Posts: 6213
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2016 5:39 pm
Location: United States

Re: Free France Campaign

Post by bru888 »

Mascarenhas wrote: Mon Mar 30, 2020 9:31 pm Et vive aussi les artistes de ce jeu, Erik et Bruce!
A bit of good news: Unlike my understanding of Finnish, which ranks down among Vulcan in that regard, I am able to translate this phrase without resorting to Google Translate: "And long live as well the artists of this game, Erik and Bruce!" Well, thanks very much, Mascarenhas. We need to live long, as we have much work to do! :wink:
- Bru
Mascarenhas
Sergeant First Class - Elite Panzer IIIL
Sergeant First Class - Elite Panzer IIIL
Posts: 434
Joined: Mon Aug 21, 2017 11:45 am
Location: Brazil

Re: Free France Campaign

Post by Mascarenhas »

Wu ha-tor heh smusma !
Mascarenhas
Sergeant First Class - Elite Panzer IIIL
Sergeant First Class - Elite Panzer IIIL
Posts: 434
Joined: Mon Aug 21, 2017 11:45 am
Location: Brazil

Re: Free France Campaign

Post by Mascarenhas »

That´s the original Vulcan salute to you.
bru888
Order of Battle Moderator
Order of Battle Moderator
Posts: 6213
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2016 5:39 pm
Location: United States

Re: Free France Campaign

Post by bru888 »

Mascarenhas wrote: Mon Mar 30, 2020 10:32 pm That´s the original Vulcan salute to you.
Thanks for translating! It was too much for Google Translate on "Detect Language" setting. It guessed "English" which is not very complimentary . . . :(

Image0289.jpg
Image0289.jpg (65.37 KiB) Viewed 2866 times
- Bru
Mascarenhas
Sergeant First Class - Elite Panzer IIIL
Sergeant First Class - Elite Panzer IIIL
Posts: 434
Joined: Mon Aug 21, 2017 11:45 am
Location: Brazil

Re: Free France Campaign

Post by Mascarenhas »

I think youl have a better luck here:
https://funtranslations.com/vulcan
ColonelY
Colonel - Ju 88A
Colonel - Ju 88A
Posts: 1519
Joined: Tue Jan 07, 2020 8:46 am

Re: Free France Campaign

Post by ColonelY »

bru888 wrote: Mon Mar 30, 2020 8:00 pm Announcement: I have asked for Erik's collaboration on this project. We have agreed that a Free France Campaign will be our next project in the BrucErik Studio.
:D Wonderful, thanks a lot! :D
rafdobrowolski
Sergeant - 7.5 cm FK 16 nA
Sergeant - 7.5 cm FK 16 nA
Posts: 206
Joined: Thu Dec 17, 2015 7:13 pm

Re: Free France Campaign

Post by rafdobrowolski »

bru888 wrote: Mon Mar 30, 2020 8:00 pm Announcement: I have asked for Erik's collaboration on this project. We have agreed that a Free France Campaign will be our next project in the BrucErik Studio.
YAY!!!
ColonelY
Colonel - Ju 88A
Colonel - Ju 88A
Posts: 1519
Joined: Tue Jan 07, 2020 8:46 am

Re: Free France Campaign

Post by ColonelY »

Sources: The 9th chapter of the book I’ve received, completed thanks to Wiki and thanks to some specialized websites.

OPERATION DRAGOON: 8)

It’s the code name for the landing operation of the Allied invasion of Provence (Southern France) on the 15th August 1944. Initially planned to be executed in conjunction with the famous Operation Overlord (Allied landing in Normandy), it was cancelled due to the lack of available resources…

On one hand, the clogged-up ports in Normandy did not have the capacity to adequately supply the Allied forces and, on the other hand, the French High Command pushed for a revival of the operation that would include large numbers of French troops. Indeed, Charles de Gaulle does not want his troops left behind! The belle France must be liberated, and its coat of arms must be restored!

So, the operation was finally approved in July to be executed in August. Main (common) goal: secure vital ports on the French Mediterranean coast and increase pressure on the German forces by opening another front.

The Allies let the Germans think they were going against the Italian port of Genoa... Moreover, the Germans were hindered by Allied air supremacy and a large-scale uprising by the French Resistance... What? Yes, it is said that about 75'000 members of the French resistance have participated in this area, compared to the about 150'000 soldiers of the initial landing and to the almost 580'000 members of the entire invasion force... Well, if that's correct (or at least almost), then the participation of the French resistance weighted for sure in the balance!

After a successful Allied landing, the French managed to capture the important ports and strongholds of Marseille and Toulon, where the Germans put a hell of a stand… Soon after, these ports were put into operation for the sake of the Allies!
:D
************************
July 44: the French general Jean-Marie de Lattre de Tassigny takes command of the Africa’s army, called "Army B" by the Allies, which is to LAND IN PROVENCE shortly after the Normandy landings!
This “army B” contains 7 French divisions (!), 5 infantry divisions and 2 armored divisions:
1re division de Français libres” (general Brosset), “9e division d’infanterie coloniale” (gen. Magnan), “3e division d’infanterie algérienne” (gen. de Monsabert), “4e division marocaine de montagne” (gen. Sevez), “2e division d’infanterie marocaine” (gen. Dody), “1re division blindée” (gen. Touzet du Vigier), “5e division blindée” (gen. de Vernejoul)
+ the “commandos d’Afrique” (lt-col. Bouvet)
************************
This is a typical theoretical composition of a French armored division (at that time):
3 medium tank regiments
1 reconnaissance regiment
1 infantry regiment with 3 battalions (motorized)
1 regiment of tank destroyers (TD)
1 divisional artillery (3 groups of 105 self-propelled)
1 anti-aircraft artillery group (probably self-propelled too)
1 engineer battalion
***
This is a typical theoretical composition of a French infantry division (still at that time of course):
3 infantry regiments (or “brigades”, in principle each with 3 battalions)
1 armored reconnaissance regiment
1 regiment of tank destroyers (TD)
1 divisional artillery: 3 groups of 105, 1 group of 155 (possibly with some colonial artillery regiments of 155)
1 engineer battalion
1 anti-aircraft artillery group
=> The main idea is that each division can use, if needed, up to three different groups fully equipped, thus almost independent and autonomous; this gives more operational flexibility… this is, for example, why there are “3 medium tank regiments” for an armored division or “3 infantry regiments” for an infantry division… :wink:
Last edited by ColonelY on Wed Apr 01, 2020 3:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Post Reply

Return to “Order of Battle : World War II - Scenario Design”