Mixing Cav and LF

[vamrat]

The ancient Greeks would often send light infantry running along with their cavalry. This can be seen in the movie Alexander or it can be read about in Caesar's De Bellum Gallicum (for a Roman/Germanic example).

So, can this be accurately be depicted in FoG? LF is the same speed or faster than Cav in most (if not all) circumstances. If I take my LF as the second row in a battle line consisting of 6 stands of Cav and 6 stands of Javeliner's, for example, will the Jav guys still be able to fight in the melee phase? Also, since some missle troops get POAs for shooting Cav in more than one row, do the LF count for this?

Thanks.

[DaiSho]

The ancient Greeks would often send light infantry running along with their cavalry. This can be seen in the movie Alexander or it can be read about in Caesar's De Bellum Gallicum (for a Roman/Germanic example).

So, can this be accurately be depicted in FoG? LF is the same speed or faster than Cav in most (if not all) circumstances. If I take my LF as the second row in a battle line consisting of 6 stands of Cav and 6 stands of Javeliner's, for example, will the Jav guys still be able to fight in the melee phase? Also, since some missle troops get POAs for shooting Cav in more than one row, do the LF count for this?

Thanks.

They interpenetrate each other, so you can depict it any way you like. 2 BG's one in front one behind, beside each other... how-ever you like.

Ian

[SirGarnet]

That would be two BGs operating as they normally do.

To depict the mixed body you want, I think your Cav bases need 2 mounted and one LF figure each, probably just in the rear rank. They would still fight as Cavalry.

[DaiSho]

That would be two BGs operating as they normally do.

Yes, but my point was that just because the Greeks did it this way doesn't need a rule. It's just the way the Greeks did things.

The example the OP gave of Gaugamela in 'Alexander' is EXACTLY as 2 BG's.

I do see your point about having the rear rank guys as 'light infantry' but counting as 'cavalry' though. It would look quite nice. You could alternatively have the odd base with a javelinman mixed in.

Ian

[vamrat]

My intent was to run it as two BGs. That would give the cav some added strentgth in combat. I figure that since the greek cavalry is somewhat deficient, I may as well give it as much strength as possible.

[SirGarnet]

My intent was to run it as two BGs. That would give the cav some added strentgth in combat. I figure that since the greek cavalry is somewhat deficient, I may as well give it as much strength as possible.

Then again, there's the Greek philosophy of not taking any troops that are easy to kill.

[marioslaz]

The ancient Greeks would often send light infantry running along with their cavalry. This can be seen in the movie Alexander or it can be read about in Caesar's De Bellum Gallicum (for a Roman/Germanic example).

I guess you talk about hamippoi, that was in use also in Sparta and Athens, but I suppose also in other cities. The troops I'm talking were light infantry who ran mixed with cavalry (it seems they caught the tails of horses to ran faster).

So, can this be accurately be depicted in FoG? LF is the same speed or faster than Cav in most (if not all) circumstances. If I take my LF as the second row in a battle line consisting of 6 stands of Cav and 6 stands of Javeliner's, for example, will the Jav guys still be able to fight in the melee phase? Also, since some missle troops get POAs for shooting Cav in more than one row, do the LF count for this?

Thanks.

I think this can easily simulated in FOG, even if in the list there isn't a voice for hamippoi. In fact, because LF has the same speed of Cav and LF can form a battle line with mounted troops, you can deploy a BG of 6 stands of Cav with 6 stands of LF with jav ahead. LF can screen Cav absorbing shoot and shooting to opponent. If charged, they can evade behind Cav. This is a pretty accurate way to simulate the cooperation between LF and Cav, because I think LF couldn't be of any help when friendly Cav entered in close combat against an enemy Cav.

[Polkovnik]

To answer the original question though, in FOG the LF will not support the cavalry in any way. If behind the Cavalry BG they will not fight in melee or shoot in impact or shooting phase.

[Ghaznavid]

I guess you talk about hamippoi, that was in use also in Sparta and Athens, but I suppose also in other cities. The troops I'm talking were light infantry who ran mixed with cavalry (it seems they caught the tails of horses to ran faster).

I'm not so sure on that. Grabbing the mane might work (it's also how the ancient Spanish are supposed to have done it IIRC), but horses have a hard to supress tendency to kick things that pull on their tails.

[vamrat]

To answer the original question though, in FOG the LF will not support the cavalry in any way. If behind the Cavalry BG they will not fight in melee or shoot in impact or shooting phase.

Ok. Thats not the answer I was looking for but it is the answer to my question. So the LF can be in a battleline with the Cav, they can evade behind them etc. But they cannot support them in Melee. Is this the same for all BG's in melee? If I have two BGs one in front of the other, when one gets cut down, can the next one fight from the second row?

[DaiSho]

To answer the original question though, in FOG the LF will not support the cavalry in any way. If behind the Cavalry BG they will not fight in melee or shoot in impact or shooting phase.

Ok. Thats not the answer I was looking for but it is the answer to my question. So the LF can be in a battleline with the Cav, they can evade behind them etc. But they cannot support them in Melee. Is this the same for all BG's in melee? If I have two BGs one in front of the other, when one gets cut down, can the next one fight from the second row?

Eww, Light troops would not be a good 'second row'.

My experience is that it is rare for the winner to be anything worse than disrupted, so you'd have something like Disrupted (at worst) cavalry pursuing into light troops who would have to test to stand and then get cut down to a man if they did. Not a good look.

Ian

[SirGarnet]

Chucking missiles at enemy under the intercept cover of the cavalry would be useful. They can't charge most enemies in the open but could fight in overlap. Or in some cases an enemy entangled in melee with or pursuing the lights could be flank charged to advantage.

[DaiSho]

Chucking missiles at enemy under the intercept cover of the cavalry would be useful.

That would be difficult (not impossible) to orchistrate. Given to actually shoot you have to be capable of doing 1hp3 bases. So, assuming a BG of 4 enemy, you have to have at least 2 dice, which means a BG of 4 LF.

Interception can only happen if the charge path goes through the area directly in front of the interceptors.

So, the better use (IMHO) would be to have the LF in front of the cavalry and evade through the cavalry. This way at worst you're going to be on even factors, and if the LF have been lucky, they have even disrupted the enemy.

Ian

[SirGarnet]

I'm assuming 6 average LF, giving double the 25% chance of forcing a test that 2 have on 4-6s.

In front is safe for the LF but if there is room then roughly side by side provides more tactical options against a single opposing BG.

Here's an inspirational live example of a favorable situation:

There is an enemy BG of 6 Evil Lancer Cav out there feeling pretty smug facing 2 weaker Good BGs a few hundred paces away - 6 average LF Bow to their right front and 4 Lt Spear Cav to their left front. Everyone is Average. In the Good turn, the Bows advance into effective range and wheel to angle themselves toward right front corner of the Lancers. The Good Cav is more circumspect and deploys itself out of charge range of the Lancers (and out of step forward distance if the Lancers charge the Bow) but in skirmish order more than 2 base widths to the right of the Bows and at an angle relative to the Lancers that faces past the front of the bows. The Good player carefully measures to ensure this would allow interception of the Lancers. The Bow then shoot the Lancers with a couple of hits.

The Lancers pass the test but are encouraged to do something rather than be shot up. Not perhaps having thought through all the consequences, they decide to charge, reasoning the Skirmishers will go away one way or the other, which if they evade and the Lancers roll well up would make the Cav charge target and force them to stand or evade. Seems better than advancing forward and taking a few more rounds of shooting from weak and timid opposition.

The Lancers charge, the Bow decide to make a stand of it and with only one base in contact 1 hit per side is a tie so they don't even take a cohesion test. The Lancers now conform to the Bow, and feed a file over to the right from the left. Unfortunately, the conform puts a base of the Good Cav behind the front edge line of the Lancers and the Lancer player is feeling rather foolish when this is noticed.

No surprises in what happens next. In Melee the Bow go disruptd and lose a base. Next the Cav charge the Lancers in flank and knock them disrupted on contact and to fragmented with a lost base in Impact. Fighting Fragmented and in 2 directions in Melee, the Lancers fold.

Things could have gone differently of course, but the point is the Lancers had unhappy choices - charge or move and take more shooting. The Good troops could evade and then try the same tactic again. LF posted in front of the Cavalry would have meant a combination of evades or unattractive frontal combats.