Potential bug ?

[Alcoolamus]

In building descriptions, "Revolt risk increased by 10%" is in green while it's supposed to be a negative modifier. "Revolt risk decreased by 10%" on the contrary is in orange, while it's supposed to be a positive modifier.
I'm confused. Which one should I actually build to lower the risk of revolt ?

[Bullseye500]

The color coding is confusing the heck out of me as well.

[desertedfox]

Yes, that should say "decreased by 10%". If you think about it, the Circus is to make people happy with entertainment.

I am happy with the "green" = good, but the wording should reflect that actual change to avoid confusion.

[Alcoolamus]

Yes, that should say "decreased by 10%". If you think about it, the Circus is to make people happy with entertainment.

I am happy with the "green" = good, but the wording should reflect that actual change to avoid confusion.

In a way, a circus can increase the revolt risk too. Like in my city, the biggest police mobilisations are when soccer games are taking place in the stadium because there is a huge crowd (between 30k and 50k) including rival hooligans, and unrest is not uncommon in the previous or following night. I guess it was somewhat the same in Ancient era, men never change haha

[Morbio]

Yes, that should say "decreased by 10%". If you think about it, the Circus is to make people happy with entertainment.

I am happy with the "green" = good, but the wording should reflect that actual change to avoid confusion.

I think the words are fine, it's the colours are wrong... unless the developers can confirm otherwise.

What this discussion clearly illustrates is that the confusion that arises from the current wording and colour combinations! Anything that can be done to remove this confusion would be appreciated.

[desertedfox]

Yes, that should say "decreased by 10%". If you think about it, the Circus is to make people happy with entertainment.

I am happy with the "green" = good, but the wording should reflect that actual change to avoid confusion.

I think the words are fine, it's the colours are wrong... unless the developers can confirm otherwise.

What this discussion clearly illustrates is that the confusion that arises from the current wording and colour combinations! Anything that can be done to remove this confusion would be appreciated.

WRONG! Loyalty is increased by 40%. So if the loyalty is increased, then the risk of revolt would be.....drum roll.....DECREASED!

How can the circus increase loyalty and increase the risk of revolt? The decadence increase is the result of all this "happiness", not unhappiness.

[Morbio]

Pocus, developers.... any comments?

[desertedfox]

I don't understand how this is hard to get correct.

When you INCREASE LOYALTY, the people are happier therefore the chances of a revolt will DECREASE.

Quote from Warhammer 2.

If a lord's loyalty reaches 0 they can rebel, taking their army with them

So as loyalty DECREASES the chances of revolt...drum roll ...INCREASES.

Quote from Civ 6.

When a city's Loyalty score drops to its minimum, that city will revolt

It's very simple to understand.

[Alcoolamus]

Did you actually read the whole thread ? If yes, please do it again more carefully

[desertedfox]

If you're talking about your previous post..that is totally irrelevant. The fighting as a result of hooligans in the modern world is localized to the area in which the soccer match is held. I have never seen a report where soccer hooligans have revolted and overthrown their government. However, if you have, please post a link to the article.

No such incidences are on record that I have come across in the ancient world, where parents take their children to the circus and when they are finished there, they beat the crap of the first person they see standing outside the circus, before marching on the senate demanding a new government.

SERIOUSLY???

I am done with this thread. It is BASIC psychology. If you don't understand that then you will never understand that an increase in loyalty results in a less likelihood of a revolt.

This is like trying to explain to someone why 2 + 2 = 4, when they don't understand basic math.

Believe what you want to believe and I'll believe with what is a fact.

[Soar]

First off, in terms of game mechanics, revolt risk is something that can occur when a region's loyalty falls below 50. At 50 loyalty or above there is no revolt risk, below that it increases based on the decifit in the loyalty level as well as whether ethnic subjects are being assimilated to the owning faction's culture (and maybe some other things I'm forgetting). The revolt risk modifiers from buildings then multiply that revolt risk. The net effect of the various +Loyalty/+Revolt risk buildings is that they provide a buffer of loyalty that (among other positive effects) helps prevent revolts from becoming possible, but if that buffer ever becomes insufficient, the resulting revolt risk is increased somewhat.

As to why this mechanic is in the game, we can probably thank the Spartacus revolt and the Third Servile War. The blood sports performed at the circuses in the Roman Empire may have provided a distraction for the masses, but the actual people participating in said blood sports were often slaves not too happy about being forced to fight. In 73 BC the escape of 70 slave-gladiators from a gladiator school (also a building in the game, making use of the same mechanic) escalated into a massive slave revolt that took two years and a force of 8 Roman legions to crush.

[Alcoolamus]

I have never seen a report where soccer hooligans have revolted and overthrown their government. However, if you have, please post a link to the article. :roll

Clearly you’re not aware a war almost erupted because of a soccer match

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Football_War

Anyway I was referring to the comments on colour primarily and it seems you didn’t understand the whole problem lays here. The fact several people in this thread showed they are uncertain about this reveals there is an issue that should be solved (and that would probably be easy) by the dev

It’s good for you if it is obvious to you, but fact is it isn’t for everyone and it could be improved

[desertedfox]

You obviously haven't followed your own advice and read the whole thread carefully.

I have stated that the green colour of 10% is correct as it is a decrease the chances of a revolt, HOWEVER, I said the wording needs to be changed from "Increases" to "decreases".

In this regard, I am onboard with other posters and have been since my first post in this thread.

My disagreement comes from Morbio stating he thinks the wording is correct and the colour changed to orange, which doesn't make sense as to why are the citizens wishing to revolt, they are NOT!

In the instance of the Gladiator School, there is an increase in loyalty...but an ORANGE INCREASE in the chances of revolt. The revolt is NOT by the citizens, but the unhappy slaves/gladiators as happened historically.

So in the instance of the circus, loyalty goes up, people are happy, so to change the colour to orange and have an increase in the revolts chances leaves only the circus performers and animals to revolt...and

I would be amazed to find any person in the world to think that the circus performers and animals are going to revolt...dodon't you?

[desertedfox]

As to the "soccer war", we were not discussing war, but revolts.

[desertedfox]

Sorry Soar, I didn't read your post before posting mine. Exactly correct.

The Circus and Glad School are two different animals. No one is unhappy about the Circus, but as history has shown us, the slaves/gladiators were not too impressed dying for Roman Sunday afternoon entertainment.

Which is why the Circus has a GREEN 10% and the Glad School an ORANGE 15%.

The wording needs to change, not the colours.

[Alcoolamus]

You obviously haven't followed your own advice and read the whole thread carefully.

I have stated that the green colour of 10% is correct as it is a decrease the chances of a revolt, HOWEVER, I said the wording needs to be changed from "Increases" to "decreases".

In this regard, I am onboard with other posters and have been since my first post in this thread.

My disagreement comes from Morbio stating he thinks the wording is correct and the colour changed to orange, which doesn't make sense as to why are the citizens wishing to revolt, they are NOT!

In the instance of the Gladiator School, there is an increase in loyalty...but an ORANGE INCREASE in the chances of revolt. The revolt is NOT by the citizens, but the unhappy slaves/gladiators as happened historically.

So in the instance of the circus, loyalty goes up, people are happy, so to change the colour to orange and have an increase in the revolts chances leaves only the circus performers and animals to revolt...and

I would be amazed to find any person in the world to think that the circus performers and animals are going to revolt...dodon't you?

Then don't say "It's obvious you dumbs" (because this is essentially what your precedent post was), if you acknowledge there is an issue in the wording. May I remind you the thread is all about the current wording/colours being confusing for the player ? And that issue is clearly not intended by the devs, so guess what, it's called a bug.

Have a nice game.

Now I will politely ask Pocus to close this thread if he doesn't have anything to say on this matter.

[desertedfox]

Well, you were the one advocating with your modern soccer story that there would be a negative outcome from having a Circus.

I had to go to great lengths to point out the obvious flaws in your theory.

I trust you are better at math.

Thankyou.

[Alcoolamus]

"In a way, a circus can increase the revolt risk too. Like in my city, the biggest police mobilisations are when soccer games are taking place in the stadium because there is a huge crowd (between 30k and 50k) including rival hooligans, and unrest is not uncommon in the previous or following night. I guess it was somewhat the same in Ancient era, men never change haha"

Please how tell me I'm saying here "the circus definitely increase the revolt risk". I'm merely pointing this as an example on how unclear the current wording is and can be interpreted.
Anyway, goodnight sir.

Oh, and no need to be aggressive like you were in you first post. We all here share the same passion

[Morbio]

OK, I'll explain why I think it is the opposite from what DesertedFox thinks, but I'll do it in a purely factual way so as not to be insulting.

For the Courthouse:
Adding Law and Order would, IMO, reduce revolt risks, so hence the reason I think the wording is correct and the colour incorrect. My rationale seems to be supported by the additional text on the right that describes what a courthouse does. The key bit is... 'Will reduce revolt chances...'.

For the Circus:
It's less obvious to me why this would increase revolt chances, other than the riotous behaviour of fans who may get drunk and maybe carried away if the result of some competition doesn't go their way. An example being if a loved gladiator loses or the emperor doesn't cast his vote in the way the crowd desires. I believe that riots have occurred for these reasons and if there is some general bad feeling, perhaps about other things, maybe a shortage of food, war weariness or whatever, then a riot may escalate into a revolt. Now, with a +40 loyalty bonus the chances of there being any revolt risk are small, but if there are a few other factors then it is possible and so it's possible that there could be an increased risk. In the additional wording I think the key wording, although less obvious, is... '... the populace will want more extravagant performances' and perhaps if these aren't forthcoming... then other frustrations could boil over.

The only way to resolve this is for Pocus, or other developers, to comment on what is meant.

[Soar]

In the instance of the Gladiator School, there is an increase in loyalty...but an ORANGE INCREASE in the chances of revolt. ... the Circus has a GREEN 10% and the Glad School an ORANGE 15%.

What orange 15%?



I checked the modifiers database (game folder/Data/modifiers.csv), and there's two separate building modifier effects that modify revolt risk, $MOD_EFFECT_REVOLT_DECREASE and $MOD_EFFECT_REVOLT_INCREASE. No negative numbers are used, so each effect does exactly what it says in the tin. The actual text or color shown for the effect in the UI is not defined on a per-modifier or per-building basis, it appears to be set by the actual effect - so every building modifier that increases revolt risk will say "Revolt risk increased by X%" (in green) and every one that decreases revolt risk will correspondingly say "Revolt risk decreased X%" (in red). The Circus and Gladiator School both share $MOD_EFFECT_REVOLT_INCREASE (along with many other slave-workforce-related buildings and the Racing Track). The Courthouse, for example, has $MOD_EFFECT_REVOLT_DECREASE. As such, the "text is correct, the color is misleading" interpretation of this game mechanic is correct.