anti-tanks

[dks]

started playing Blitzkrieg again and trying different equipment.

I've looked over all I could find on info for at's....a real good one is the thread about "against top level AI"....learned a lot there and also got my juices up to try other equipment.

still learning how to use the Pak as a reaction defensive backup.

I finally learned basically the shock, entrenchment and efficiency rules the hard way....experience thru play.

a few questions about AT's that I'm fuzzy on.

1) do ALL anti-tank units....spats....AND....switchable arty/AA....to anti-tank mode provide the defensive reaction against tanks ?

2) does this include against spats of the enemy attacking my infantry that have AT backup ?

3) is there a specialisation that is unique to AT's and Spats like tanks get ?

I was thinking of using Heinze Guderian commander in a Panzerjager IB for a test drive on AT's....but....it all gets down to RP's/CP's.

I want mobility of the Panzerjager IB. cost 5 CP and a tank is 6 CP. that gives me 1 CP for an arty is my thinking. of course the upgrade of the Panzerjager IB to another spat is a few years away might be a problem.

soooo....any thoughts and directions to threads that might help me out.

[kondi754]

3) is there a specialisation that is unique to AT's and Spats like tanks get ?

"Pak front" spec but appears at Panzerkrieg or Sandstorm

[Zekedia222]

1) do ALL anti-tank units....spats....AND....switchable arty/AA....to anti-tank mode provide the defensive reaction against tanks?

Yes, I believe so.

2) does this include against spats of the enemy attacking my infantry that have AT backup ?

Yes, AT backup respond to any armored “mechanical class” attack, including tanks, Self Propelled AT, Armored cars, trucks, and so on.

3) is there a specialisation that is unique to AT's and Spats like tanks get ?

No clue what you mean by this. I’ll take a shot in the dark, and say yes, for the germans there is. Germans have a specialization called “Pakfront”. I forget the exact benefit, but it gives a buff to AT guns, in some circumstances.

[dks]

thanks guys.

"Pak Front" is a real help on decisions about AT's for me. with the thought that went into OoB, I knew there had to be a specialisation for AT's on the Eastern front due to the great mechanics in the game.

@Zekedia222: mechanical class....great!

I like to play with all the unit classes. harder and frustrating most of the time but a lot more fun for me to have to think harder about a strategy as well as tactics. I don't care how many times I have to restart to learn and get the most out of the equipment for campaigns that are ahead of me. getting bored of a game I like has never happened to me(I still play Lords of The Realm II now and then lol).

well AT's here we come.

[timberwolf15]

If you have an AT gun and then infantry or armor in hexes next to it and infantry attacks the units that are being protected by the AT nothing happens so the AI will throw infantry against your units protected by your AT guns cause if it throws mech units they get screwed up so have other infantry units nearby etc they you can switch out ... also the enemy will target ARTY their own ARTY onto YOUR AT guns so you may have to spend effort prioritizing taking out the enemy arty first which in order to do this if you are going to use in addition to other units - if you are going to also use planes you may need to also take out their anti air first or in conjunction with their arty. If you wound their arty the AI usually does not fire it but repairs it first. So if for example you have 4 arty and they have two arty you can have your arty hit their arty using only one shot each then use your other two arty to attack their aa then use your tac bomber to weaken or take out their aa even more you can also use some fighters to slightly weaken their arty. This allows you to keep your AT guns at full strength and move then forward with your units moving with the AT stuff that is in front of your AT stuff one hex at a time.

[dks]

thanks gunny

I keep forgetting that switch out.

I'm practicing in Blitzkrieg....Belgium. the AT's are perfect for the allied counter attack near and around Namur.

so far the AI tanks say no way and as you say the AI sends in the Brits infantry asap attacking and trying the envelopment.

I'm trying to build an experienced AT force before I get to Panzerkrieg and how to best use them and which ones grow experience the fastest.

what I love about Blitzkrieg is that it is truly a combined arms challenge. that will get me into other unit class questions. 109e or 110c and 75mm FK18 or 10.5cm leFH18 or just jump to the 17cm K18.

RP's and CP's seem to be making my decisions for me......

[Erik2]

1) No... there are a couple of Italian switchable AA/AT units like the Cannone da 90/53 that do not provide reaction fire in AT mode. At least they didn't the last time I played the hapless Italians.
It is difficult to check the AT for reaction fire as there is no 'reaction trait' (that I am aware of).
At least i can't find anything about this in the excellent Unit Navigator http://mfendek.byethost16.com.

[dks]

thanks Erik2

I can't load the navigator for some reason on my putters browsers....I had a discussion with Mojko already. I definitely don't want to chase around the units.csv file. done some of that too.

as of now I'm concentrating on the German equipment in Blitzkrieg going forward to Panzerkrieg and Endsieg.

chasing around the threads for info I read somewhere that much of the needed info about units and terrain outside of the manual and editor is: ya gotta play it to know it lol.
that's ok with me. love learning new stuff and hey, I get all my pennies worth out of the game too.

I already have experimented some using the editor with units but nothing like the real thing.

sooo....looks like I have to try practicing in game with the mighty Panzerjager IB lol.

[terminator]

1) No... there are a couple of Italian switchable AA/AT units like the Cannone da 90/53 that do not provide reaction fire in AT mode. At least they didn't the last time I played the hapless Italians.
It is difficult to check the AT for reaction fire as there is no 'reaction trait' (that I am aware of).
At least i can't find anything about this in the excellent Unit Navigator http://mfendek.byethost16.com.

Capture d’écran (138).jpg (211.16 KiB) Viewed 4789 times

[bebro]

Some of the assault gun have direct fire mode, but are not in the AT class, so no reaction fire from those. That would be early, shortbarreled StuGs (before F version), Brummbär, Sturmtiger etc. and similar for other nations, like Su-152 IIRC.

[dks]

hmmmm

ran into a little problem trying out my free 20mm FlaK 38 as a AT.

I seem to be able to attack all other classes of Polish enemy units. I'm playing Blitzkrieg....Warsaw.

when I try to attack the bunker on the river located I believe just N/W of Zyradow, I can't attack it with the 20mm Flak 38 as a AT. if I remember I was having the same problem trying out the 8.8 cm Flak37 in AT mode in earlier play test.

question: are these types of units blocked from attacking enemy units in viallages/cities ? are all towed AT's and spats blocked from city attacks ?

[dks]

I tried the editor and it seems I used a turn when I switched 20mm FlaK to AT mode making it so I could not fire on the bunker.

I was using the 8.8 FlaK unit in the editor.

mumble mumble mumble....I deleted my Warsaw saves of that point to check.

well I'm in Norway and going to use that 20mm FlaK as soon as I can deploy it at Trondheim. I usually can in a few turns when I have the auxiliary German Inf take it asap instead of the airfield(I usually send the Fallschirmjager there asap first).

I can see if I can use the 20mm FlaK as reaction fire at that bunker in the mountains using the aux Inf from Trondheim.

[timberwolf15]

some scenarios especially the desert ones may have a hex where ONLY infantry can enter it which means ONLY infantry can attack it and this is quite aggravating I am to dense to be able to tell which hexes these are before I waste a bunch of turns tactfully maneuvering a tank unit or some other mechanized thing to it in order to help the attack which after doing all of this I can't attack it ...

[dks]

@gunny

just finished Norway and found out my 20mm FlaK as a AT doesn't climb mountain. I set it up for reaction fire and that bunker in the mountains laughed at me and gave my aux inf a once over lol.

so now mountains and my 20mm is logged...I think lol.

it's the old story....practice makes perfect I guess lol. oh good thing I purchased me a He 111H for my mix force and sent it north asap. got my revenge on that lousy stinking cement bunker.......

[dks]

dense: you'd think I learned in Norway about switchable AT/AA

ohhhh....after upgrading my free 20mm FlaK 38 to a brand new 8.8 cm FlaK 37 with a brand new SdKfz 7 transport that included being a miser of RP's to do so and drooling to get into combat at Blitzkrieg....Belgium.....

I find out not only is it lousy at attacking bunkers, I can't do anything with after switching

ok, was attacking the bunker close to Liege with it. I already read a thread about it being lousy attacking bunkers but had to try it out myself. ok, lost 2 strength points attacking and then comes a allied tac bomber and takes a few more

that's not the insult to injury yet next move I says to myself I can get me some of that bomber noooooo....I switch back to AA mode and no bullets....forgot I lose a turn in the switch

not done yet I passed on purchasing a brand new PzKw III G and its extra tank school star for this 88 RP's 8.8 FlaK upgrade.....phewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww....and deployed my other units making room for its mighty entry on deployment move

ok, rant over and back to the drawing board

still gonna use the 20mm FlaK but very cautiously

[dks]

a little update:

after trying over and over to find use for my free 20mm FlaK switched to an AT and get some results....I gave up lol. never could guess whether to be a AA or AT in time to use it. wrong switch and a lost turn.

what I did do was start using the 37mm PaK 36 at Blitzkrieg....Belgium....and....was able to get it in position to knock the heck out of the French tanks at Namur as a reaction and action weapon. chased the Brits tanks off too.

was a happy camper again.... and finally got me some AT's I could figure out how to use.

worked so good had to get another at Dunkirk to help stand off the French trying to out flank me at and near Torhout.

my first 37mm PaK 36 from Belgium worked great defending and attacking to take Dunkirk to bleed the Brits efficiency to a stand still trying to escape to there.

like has been said....you can't beat the RP's and CP's of the unit.

will use the heck out of them at Fall Rot.....

[timberwolf15]

a little update:

after trying over and over to find use for my free 20mm FlaK switched to an AT and get some results....I gave up lol. never could guess whether to be a AA or AT in time to use it. wrong switch and a lost turn.

what I did do was start using the 37mm PaK 36 at Blitzkrieg....Belgium....and....was able to get it in position to knock the heck out of the French tanks at Namur as a reaction and action weapon. chased the Brits tanks off too.

was a happy camper again.... and finally got me some AT's I could figure out how to use.

worked so good had to get another at Dunkirk to help stand off the French trying to out flank me at and near Torhout.

my first 37mm PaK 36 from Belgium worked great defending and attacking to take Dunkirk to bleed the Brits efficiency to a stand still trying to escape to there.

like has been said....you can't beat the RP's and CP's of the unit.

will use the heck out of them at Fall Rot.....

I'm glad Im not the enemy trying to get into your lines of defense ... and regarding the switching back and forth betwixt aa or AT therein lies the problem I've often had the thing the wrong way but its great when a tank attacks your infantry supported by AT and gets severely knocked down its just great - mines are nice to they can force choke points for the enemy often you may have an AT here is a pic ...
In this pic below this infantry unit that has 3 enemy next to it will probably be hit - attacked in one turn 3 vs 1

at 1.png (737.75 KiB) Viewed 4464 times

Being hit by 2 infantry and a tank. Whereas if you use mines at times .. you can be in this position.

at 2.png (891.13 KiB) Viewed 4463 times

Mines tend to freak out the enemy also now this unit can only be hit by two ALSO using mines can help if you need something protected a flank but you are out of units; however, realize that mines cost 20 rp's also they take about 3 turns to be laid again also you got to use an engineer unit to put them down which is not as strong or durable as a regular infantry unit that take up 2 landcp rather than 3 landcp it has limited movement so you may find yourself attaching a truck to it which then costs money blah blah blah but it many situations mines have really helped me. Once you get through with mines and you let the engineer unit sit still it entrenches well ... woo hoo

[dks]

@gunny

what I'm finding out is the AI infantry will flank every time when and if I leave an opening(mines great idea).

if I can, using 2-PaKs seems to work better for me. this way I can split the Panzers to cover an enemy Infantry flank attempt at my Infantry as well as support my weaker Panzers against the enemy bigger tanks.

Blitzkrieg...Belgium was perfect for this at Namur and I was given another PaK. of course time doesn't always work for the set up when I'm being torn to shreds by an earlier than expected enemy attack when I'm on the offensive lol.

what I'm doing now is: restarted Blitzkrieg. I'm at Belgium again. what I wanted to see was how far I can get in the Blitzkrieg campaign using only light artillery. the 7.5 cm IeIG 18's and 75mm FK18's. the 7.5 with no transport and the 75mm with transport. this to free up more command points and more units on the ground. the 7.5 are my mobile arty if you will and the 75's are my distance arty. both have the 10 shock.

this gets me to relying more on my PaK's for my Infantry so far. the trick is keeping the enemy Infantry and arty off the backs of my PaK's....not an easy task....

fast forward: I finished Yugoslavia without using any Panzers or heavy artillery. used only light artillery and Infantry. was back to my PaK's for defense against any enemy tanks. this showed me in Blitzkrieg, I'm too dependent on my Panzers and not actually playing a combined forced strategy.

I don't want to spoiler Yugoslavia for those that haven't played it yet in Blitzkrieg so I'll stop there.

back to Belgium: small arty, Infantry, Panzers AND PaK's. oh...I'm learning to slow down and make my moves count and "READ" the terrain information panel before I attack and defend lol.

[timberwolf15]

Enjoy Blitzkrieg all ya can many of the other ones are not attack campaigns which I loathe for example:
Kriegsmere bunch of ships who cares
Ensieg bought it stopped playing it a defensive nightmare ya just watch the AI move over and over
Morning Sun is ok but then the Chinese become a headache
Rising Sun I cannot stomach because I have read to many books about WWII and how the Japs yes I typed Japs treated prisoners etc.
Panzerkrieg who cares its just a huge defensive watch the AI move I suppose
Burma Road is good
Us Marines is great wish they would make more us marine stuff
Us Pacific is good but a lot of beach assault stuff gets old but its ok
What I would like is a US forces one there is a custom campaign but overall I prefer more the stuff ya have to buy I think they play test it more make sure EVERYTHING works correctly and they dumb it down to where ya can play it on medium level and still have a fun experience
so then there is
Sandstorm is great but then there are defensive battles that are hecktick
Winter War is great mainly because ya can fight the soviets as you are a country they figured they would steam roll over but again you do some hard defensive battles
so again Blitzkried I love then there is Red Star this is nice and hopefully the other stars will be good too.
Main Problem is I'm picky and spoiled and only prefer the attack. The defensive battles that are mixed in provide necessary realism but I would rather then have me do an attack map and say well other parts of our army you did not lead had to retreat but we are going to continue the attack now since we have units going back into the enemy woo hoo

[Zekedia222]

I loved Morning Sun, as well as Rising Sun to a lesser extent. I’m indifferent about Japan’s warcrimes at this point. I’ve seen them ignored so much that I honestly can’t be bothered to raise my hand and explain why Japan was far worse than the Nazis.