Turns/Contactions/Expansions...etc...+ wheel?

[Blathergut]

Have followed how turns and such cannot include a shift.

But can they include, as part of the movement involved with any of those (turns/expansions/etc) a single wheel?

[DaiSho]

Have followed how turns and such cannot include a shift.

But can they include, as part of the movement involved with any of those (turns/expansions/etc) a single wheel?

So long as the contraction includes a 3" movement of all of the base, yes... it's there in teh rules but I don't have them on me right now.

Ian

[hammy]

A simple advance can include a wheel but only one. A lot of people seem to think that because one wheel is allowed that they can do any number.

As mentioned above if you are contracting and need to advance 3 MU then both front corners must advance at least 3 MU.

[giobaratto]

A simple advance can include a wheel but only one. A lot of people seem to think that because one wheel is allowed that they can do any number.

As you correctly say, a simple advance. That means that I can't turn 90 or 180 deegres and then make e difficult advance? For example, turn 180° with a Bg of LH without a general and already inside 6 MU from foes, then wheel and move less then a complete move it's impossible. Am I right?

giorgio

[SirGarnet]

A simple advance can include a wheel but only one. A lot of people seem to think that because one wheel is allowed that they can do any number.

As you correctly say, a simple advance. That means that I can't turn 90 or 180 deegres and then make e difficult advance? For example, turn 180° with a Bg of LH without a general and already inside 6 MU from foes, then wheel and move less then a complete move it's impossible. Am I right?

giorgio

Nope - for LH that's Simple. Difficult only kicks in for that one Complex box in the Advances lines, right hand column under "Other Undrilled."

[giobaratto]

A simple advance can include a wheel but only one. A lot of people seem to think that because one wheel is allowed that they can do any number.

As you correctly say, a simple advance. That means that I can't turn 90 or 180 deegres and then make e difficult advance? For example, turn 180° with a Bg of LH without a general and already inside 6 MU from foes, then wheel and move less then a complete move it's impossible. Am I right?

giorgio

Nope - for LH that's Simple. Difficult only kicks in for that one Complex box in the Advances lines, right hand column under "Other Undrilled."

Right, I'm playing only for a month or so, please justify my stupidity.
But as for what I can read:

Page 41 Simple and Complex Moves
"Moves fall onto three categories: simple, complex or impossible....
...A move must be from a single section of the table (e.g charges, advances, expansions)..."

the bottom of the same page
Advances
An advance is a move frome the "Advances" section of the table. Some move from other section are permitted to include an advance.

So I do understand that if my LH turn 180°, from the Turns section of the table, then I can also chose a SIMPLE advance from the Advance section of the table. But only if it's a Simple advance not a difficult one, indipendently of the copmplex, simple or impossible categories...

Maybe I'm a little too Macchiavellic, but that's the way I understand the rule....
Ok, now you can start to call me crap and explain me where I'm wrong

giorgio[/i]

[Blathergut]

Difficult forward moves are SIMPLE for everything except "other undrilled."

[giobaratto]

Difficult forward moves are SIMPLE for everything except "other undrilled."

I do understand that, when you choose to make a diffuclt forward moves is Simple, but if you choose to turn then you have to choose a SIMPLE advance not a DIFFICULT one, at least that's what it seems to me as long there are difference between categories of moves and section of the table....

I could be wrong, and surely i am, but it's not so clear.... reading the rules

Sorry RDB
giorgio

[SirGarnet]

If you just write "DIFFICULT" in the Other Undrillled Complex box under Advances in the Quick Reference Sheet at the end of the book (the line on p42 is confusing) then it will solve your problem forever because Difficult Move = Everything in that one box, and if you never have undrilled troops that try to do anything covered by that box then you will never have a Difficult Move.

Every other box under Advances is a Simple Advance.

[giobaratto]

If you just write "DIFFICULT" in the Other Undrillled Complex box under Advances in the Quick Reference Sheet at the end of the book (the line on p42 is confusing) then it will solve your problem forever because Difficult Move = Everything in that one box, and if you never have undrilled troops that try to do anything covered by that box then you will never have a Difficult Move.

Every other box under Advances is a Simple Advance.

I don't agree. In the quick reference Sheet there's nothing like e DIFFICULT advance, only Complex move if you do a wheel or a short advance w/out a commander that goes or end 6 MU from enemy.

The confusing thing is the difference between complex, only referred to a move anda difficult, only referred to an advance... anyway i wrote just to understand the passage in the rules, and I'm sure you already talk about that and solved the arcane.

Ergo, in the rules difficult advances do not exist, only Simple or Complex moves.... apart for the other Undrilled... sound a little bit strange to me, I mean two paragraph just to say that other undrilled can't turn and move, but rules are rules...

thanx for claryfing the concept
giorgio

[SirGarnet]

It is needlessly convoluted, which is why I provide the definitive solution - you can write Difficult Move in the box, but I just write Difficult.

[Blathergut]

Difficult forward moves are SIMPLE for everything except "other undrilled."

I do understand that, when you choose to make a diffuclt forward moves is Simple, but if you choose to turn then you have to choose a SIMPLE advance not a DIFFICULT one, at least that's what it seems to me as long there are difference between categories of moves and section of the table....

I could be wrong, and surely i am, but it's not so clear.... reading the rules

Sorry RDB
giorgio

I use to confuse this as well. Once you turn you need to make a SIMPLE advance, yes, as opposed to a COMPLEX advance. This simple advance CAN be a difficult forward move if you are not undrilled other. I use to think 'simple' ruled out 'difficult' but it only rules out COMPLEX.

[SirGarnet]

OK, well . . .

the difficult can be simple, and the simple difficult, but you can still save 20% shopping online

[hammy]

I use to confuse this as well. Once you turn you need to make a SIMPLE advance, yes, as opposed to a COMPLEX advance. This simple advance CAN be a difficult forward move if you are not undrilled other. I use to think 'simple' ruled out 'difficult' but it only rules out COMPLEX.

IMO the key is that almost no advances are anything other than simple BUT simple advances are in themselves rather restrictive primarily in that you can only have a single wheel.

There are no troops who can turn 90 and move who are impacted by difficult moves. In some ways the best thing to do to simplify this rule would be to remove simple entirely so it just becomes "Turn 90 degrees followed by an advance".

[marioslaz]

I read a lot of post about problems to understanding the system of movement, and indeed this caused to me some problem when I started to play. I think all misunderstandings are due to the interpretation as synonym of 'Advance' and 'Forward Move', and of 'Complex' and 'Difficult'. If you keep in mind this you will not confound 'Difficult Forward Move' with 'Complex Advance', and when you find 'Simple Advance' in a move type you know you must choose a move from an advance that is simple for your troops.
A note about rules editing. I think this would be clearer if it was written with more emphasis. For example instead of 'SIMPLE advance' in the table at p42, or 'simple advance' in the table at the end of the rulebook, I would have written 'SIMPLE ADVANCE' or 'Simple Advance' in both.