Rules Questions after First Game

[KenPortner]

I've posted this at the Yahoogroup too, so if you answered there no need to repeat here.

1. There is a -1 modifier on Cohesion Tests for 1HP3B in close combat. Is
there a -2 modifier for 2HP3B, a -3 modifier for 3HP3B, etc.?


2. Are Cohesion tests for seeing a friendly BG break taken simultaneously?
Here's the situation. BG 1 breaks from Close Combat. BG 2, within 3 MU,
took a test for seeing BG 1 break and fails badly, itself becoming broken. Does
BG 3, within 3 MU of BG 2, but not within 3 MU of BG 1, now take a test? I.e.
is there a "cascading effect" to the Cohesion tests? I'm not sure that "Testing
Multiple Battle Groups" on page 114 of the Rule book answers the question.

And before you say, "look at the Full Turn Sequence" I'll say that seems to conflict with the rules text which states that tests for seeing friends break are taken at the end of the phase. If these tests are all taken at the end of the phase, how can they be sequential?-- i.e., how can one affect another?


3. Mounted must break off if they are in contact with Steady Foot in th JAP.
Can they choose to break off if they are in contact with non-Steady foot?

4. Do Mounted Break Off from contact with Steady Foot during the JAP if the
Mounted were charged by the Steady Foot, or only if the Mounted were the
chargers? The rules description suggests it could be the latter.

5. A Foot BG is in melee combat with a Mounted BG and becomes Disrupted. In
the JAP a Commander with the Foot BG Bolsters the Foot BG and it becomes Steady.
Does the Mounted have to Break Off? or did the Break Off time come before the
Foot was Bolstered and became Steady?

Again, the Turn Sequence seems to indicate that the bolster comes after the breakoff, but on page 106 it says the actve player can decide the order of events. Which is right?

6. Is there a discrepancy between the rules and the Full Turn Sequence Chart
on page 168 with regard to when Cohesion Tests are taken? The rules say you
take a Cohesion Test for seeing friends break at the end of the Melee phase.
But the Full Turn Sequence on page 168 appearst to indicate this can happen two
separate times, and not just at the end of the Melee Phase.

7. A Commander can try to Bolster a BG if the BG hasn't dropped a Cohesion
level "this turn." Does this mean the current Active Player's turn, or the
entire game turn (i.e. the pair of Active player turns)?

8. Is there any requirement that ranks be "complete" in order to qualify for POA's for 2+ ranks of spear or 3+ ranks of Pike?

Thanks for any answers.

Ken

[dave_r]

1. There is a -1 modifier on Cohesion Tests for 1HP3B in close combat. Is
there a -2 modifier for 2HP3B, a -3 modifier for 3HP3B, etc.?

No, -1 is all you get.

2. Are Cohesion tests for seeing a friendly BG break taken simultaneously?
Here's the situation. BG 1 breaks from Close Combat. BG 2, within 3 MU,
took a test for seeing BG 1 break and fails badly, itself becoming broken. Does
BG 3, within 3 MU of BG 2, but not within 3 MU of BG 1, now take a test? I.e.
is there a "cascading effect" to the Cohesion tests? I'm not sure that "Testing
Multiple Battle Groups" on page 114 of the Rule book answers the question.

There can be - you effectively have two options, depending upon how you want to play it. If BG A breaks and BG's B and C are within 3" of that BG and of each other then you choose the order of tests - if you suspect BG B will break then you can either take BG C's test first then BG B. If BG B subsequently breaks then BG C would have to take a further test.

Alternatively take BG B's test first - if it breaks then BG C takes one test with a -1 due to two reasons to test.

This can get confusing and end up with multiple tests per BG in any one turn if you get unlucky.

3. Mounted must break off if they are in contact with Steady Foot in th JAP.
Can they choose to break off if they are in contact with non-Steady foot?

No. Either they break off or they don't. There is no option.

4. Do Mounted Break Off from contact with Steady Foot during the JAP if the
Mounted were charged by the Steady Foot, or only if the Mounted were the
chargers? The rules description suggests it could be the latter.

Mounted break off from steady foot in the JAP regardless of who charged who.

5. A Foot BG is in melee combat with a Mounted BG and becomes Disrupted. In
the JAP a Commander with the Foot BG Bolsters the Foot BG and it becomes Steady.
Does the Mounted have to Break Off? or did the Break Off time come before the
Foot was Bolstered and became Steady?

No - this is one time you do need to look at the turn sequence Break off comes before moving of generals and bolstering.

Again, the Turn Sequence seems to indicate that the bolster comes after the breakoff, but on page 106 it says the actve player can decide the order of events. Which is right?

The active player determines the sequence of simultaneous events - not change the order events come in.

6. Is there a discrepancy between the rules and the Full Turn Sequence Chart
on page 168 with regard to when Cohesion Tests are taken? The rules say you
take a Cohesion Test for seeing friends break at the end of the Melee phase.
But the Full Turn Sequence on page 168 appearst to indicate this can happen two
separate times, and not just at the end of the Melee Phase.

A BG can break at any time - but you only take CT's for seeing broken friends in Melee at the end of the phase - this is so that if two BG's break within 3" then you get the two reasons to test (or a general dies). This can get complicated... It gets easier over time.

7. A Commander can try to Bolster a BG if the BG hasn't dropped a Cohesion
level "this turn." Does this mean the current Active Player's turn, or the
entire game turn (i.e. the pair of Active player turns)?

Current Active Player's turn.

8. Is there any requirement that ranks be "complete" in order to qualify for POA's for 2+ ranks of spear or 3+ ranks of Pike?

No - take each one on a file by file basis - one file may have four ranks and thus gets the 2 POA's. Another file of the same BG may only have three ranks and thus only gets a single POA.

[rbodleyscott]

2. Are Cohesion tests for seeing a friendly BG break taken simultaneously?
Here's the situation. BG 1 breaks from Close Combat. BG 2, within 3 MU,
took a test for seeing BG 1 break and fails badly, itself becoming broken. Does
BG 3, within 3 MU of BG 2, but not within 3 MU of BG 1, now take a test? I.e.
is there a "cascading effect" to the Cohesion tests? I'm not sure that "Testing
Multiple Battle Groups" on page 114 of the Rule book answers the question.

There can be - you effectively have two options, depending upon how you want to play it. If BG A breaks and BG's B and C are within 3" of that BG and of each other then you choose the order of tests - if you suspect BG B will break then you can either take BG C's test first then BG B. If BG B subsequently breaks then BG C would have to take a further test.

Not true Dave.

See P.114

"Testing multiple battle groups
 If several battle groups have to test at the same time for seeing friends break or commanders lost, their side’s player decides which order to test them in. If further battle groups break as a consequence, those that have already tested do not have to test again."

Alternatively take BG B's test first - if it breaks then BG C takes one test with a -1 due to two reasons to test.

True.

It follows that is is usually better to test the steady BG (C) first.

[KenPortner]

2. Are Cohesion tests for seeing a friendly BG break taken simultaneously?
Here's the situation. BG 1 breaks from Close Combat. BG 2, within 3 MU,
took a test for seeing BG 1 break and fails badly, itself becoming broken. Does
BG 3, within 3 MU of BG 2, but not within 3 MU of BG 1, now take a test? I.e.
is there a "cascading effect" to the Cohesion tests? I'm not sure that "Testing
Multiple Battle Groups" on page 114 of the Rule book answers the question.

There can be - you effectively have two options, depending upon how you want to play it. If BG A breaks and BG's B and C are within 3" of that BG and of each other then you choose the order of tests - if you suspect BG B will break then you can either take BG C's test first then BG B. If BG B subsequently breaks then BG C would have to take a further test.

Not true Dave.

See P.114

"Testing multiple battle groups
 If several battle groups have to test at the same time for seeing friends break or commanders lost, their side’s player decides which order to test them in. If further battle groups break as a consequence, those that have already tested do not have to test again."

Alternatively take BG B's test first - if it breaks then BG C takes one test with a -1 due to two reasons to test.

True.

It follows that is is usually better to test the steady BG (C) first.

Richard,

Just to be sure I've got this right, this means that BG that wasn't within 3 MU of a BG that broke in close combat would have to take a Cohesion Test if it is within 3 MU of a BG that broke because it had to test for seeing a BG break in close combat, and so on, and so on, etc

Do I have that right?

Thanks.

[SirGarnet]

Just to be sure I've got this right, this means that BG that wasn't within 3 MU of a BG that broke in close combat would have to take a Cohesion Test if it is within 3 MU of a BG that broke because it had to test for seeing a BG break in close combat, and so on, and so on, etc

Do I have that right?

Thanks.

Yes, a line of fragmented BGs all falling like dominoes to create an army-crushing rout is a dream we can all hope for someday. The enemy can be fragmented on Impact, then death of a commander breaks a BG or two, then other check and break in turn and it's all over before the movement phase.

[rbodleyscott]

Richard,

Just to be sure I've got this right, this means that BG that wasn't within 3 MU of a BG that broke in close combat would have to take a Cohesion Test if it is within 3 MU of a BG that broke because it had to test for seeing a BG break in close combat, and so on, and so on, etc

Do I have that right?

Yes