V1.5.25 ZOC changes

[Cunningcairn]

FFS am I living in a parallel universe? What are you all talking about? Is this a bug or is it how it is going to work?

[stockwellpete]

Bah! Skirmishers? Just ignore the irritating blighters!

[rbodleyscott]

FFS am I living in a parallel universe? What are you all talking about? Is this a bug or is it how it is going to work?

It is not a bug, it is how it always has worked, and how it is intended to work.

They are not teleporting though the square that isn't highlighted, they are moving through it, but are not allowed to stop in it because it is outside their permitted arc of retreat from the ZOCing enemy. It is 45 degrees from the enemy facing, whereas to be permitted it has to be less than 45 degrees from the enemy facing - see manual section 12.1.1.

The final square, however, is less than 45 degrees from the enemy facing, making the overall move to that square permissable.

If the unit could stop in the intermediate square, then because it is no longer in the ZOC, it could then keep going in that direction for the rest of its move, which would effectively negate the ZOC restriction, as it would be well outside the permitted 44 degree arc.

If a square is not highlighted, it does not necessarily mean that the unit cannot move through it, just that it cannot end its move in it. The 44 degree arc of retreat from a ZOCing unit is for reasons of psychology, not physical constraints.

Also bear in mind that moving square by square is an artificial construct, which we only have because with full analogue movement it is too complex to code interactions. Also that as skirmishers, light infantry are not constrained to remain in formation, so they may just be filtering round the edge of the friendly unit rather than making the (1 degree) detour out of the "less than 45 degree" arc that the square by square path suggests.

[Cunningcairn]

FFS am I living in a parallel universe? What are you all talking about? Is this a bug or is it how it is going to work?

It is not a bug, it is how it always has worked, and how it is intended to work.

They are not teleporting though the square that isn't highlighted, they are moving through it, but are not allowed to stop in it because it is outside their permitted arc of retreat from the ZOCing enemy. It is 45 degrees from the enemy facing, whereas to be permitted it has to be less than 45 degrees from the enemy facing - see manual section 12.1.1.

The final square, however, is less than 45 degrees from the enemy facing, making the overall move to that square permissable.

If the unit could stop in the intermediate square, then because it is no longer in the ZOC, it could then keep going in that direction for the rest of its move, which would effectively negate the ZOC restriction, as it would be well outside the permitted 44 degree arc.

If a square is not highlighted, it does not necessarily mean that the unit cannot move through it, just that it cannot end its move in it. The 44 degree arc of retreat from a ZOCing unit is for reasons of psychology, not physical constraints.

Also bear in mind that moving square by square is an artificial construct, which we only have because with full analogue movement it is too complex to code interactions. Also that as skirmishers, light infantry are not constrained to remain in formation, so they may just be filtering round the edge of the friendly unit rather than making the (1 degree) detour out of the "less than 45 degree" arc that the square by square path suggests.

Thanks for the explanation.

[Athos1660]

@ Cunningcairn : I’m happy you got an answer that satisfies you.
Sorry that my posts weren’t useful to you.

[Cunningcairn]

@ Cunningcairn : I’m happy you got an answer that satisfies you.
Sorry that my posts weren’t useful to you.

Thanks your posts were useful. Unfortunately the discussion then went completely off the question I'd posted without answering it. Having been told off myself in the past for not sticking to the topic I thought I'd bring it back on track. I believe it worked

[pompeytheflatulent]

Still doesn't explain why the slingers can't move back through the Thracian spearmen behind them.

[Athos1660]

Thanks your posts were useful. Unfortunately the discussion then went completely off the question I'd posted without answering it. Having been told off myself in the past for not sticking to the topic I thought I'd bring it back on track. I believe it worked

Ok. then I'm happy I could help

Still doesn't explain why the slingers can't move back through the Thracian spearmen behind them.

They can, whatever their friendly unit behind them is, Thracian spearmen or the unit I used in my first post.
But look at the 5 squares the LF can move to, on the first picture below : two squares are illuminated, the others are not. And the square I guess you are talking about is not. Likewise on OP pictures. I think that's what you are talking about, aren't you ?

before moving :


after moving :


In the OP situation, the slingers could move back to the red cross :

[Paul59]

In the OP situation, the slingers could move back to the red cross :

Really? In the OP's original screenshot there is no indication that the move is possible, unless my eyes are getting bad!

[Athos1660]

Really? In the OP's original screenshot there is no indication that the move is possible, unless my eyes are getting bad!

On OP pictures, I can't see neither the brown dots showing ZoC1 nor the on-screen visual aids showing where the slingers can move to, thanks to the 'Pass through' mechanism, such as those visible on my pics :



And I read once :

I might have to resort to using the screen aids.

So I guess there is an option (that I can't find) that disables them. Maybe is it only in MP ? Or is it a game rule for MP ?
If so, the only screen aids that remain are the illuminated square(s). But it doesn't mean the slingers couldn't move to the red cross on the pic above.



I guess 'illuminated' squares are squares a unit can move to without using the 'Pass though mechanism' (in red) ; in this instance, by taking the blue paths :

[Paul59]

Really? In the OP's original screenshot there is no indication that the move is possible, unless my eyes are getting bad!

On OP pictures, I can't see neither the brown dots showing ZoC1 nor the on-screen visual aids showing where the slingers can move to, thanks to the 'Pass through' mechanism, such as those visible on my pics :



And I read once :

I might have to resort to using the screen aids.

So I guess there is an option (that I can't find) that disables them. Maybe is it only in MP ? Or is it a game rule for MP ?
If so, the only screen aids that remain are the illuminated square(s). But it doesn't mean the slingers couldn't move to the red cross on the pic above.

I have been playing this game for nearly three years, I was in the initial Beta test, and I don't know of any way to turn off the tile indicators.

Anyway, nevermind that, I ran my own test and have got to the bottom of this.

In the first screenshot we see our brave slingers (who some would like to see trapped and destroyed!) with all their routes indicated, including pass throughs, and the brown ZOC1 dots for the Arab Camels:




I then move them to a tile:




I then "Undo" the movement, and they return to their original position:




Notice how the passthrough tiles have all now disappeared, and the brown dots too! Obviously this is a consequence of using the Undo button! You can get them to appear again just by clicking on the unit.

It's a shame this was not made clear at the time.

[Athos1660]

Notice how the passthrough tiles have all now disappeared, and the brown dots too! Obviously this is a consequence of using the Undo button! You can get them to appear again just by clicking on the unit.

That's it! Congrats for having found it out.

It's a shame this was not made clear at the time.

no big deal, right ?

• When playing :
  • the screen aids appear at the beginning
  • after "undo', the "pass-through mechanism" remains useable and visible when hovering the mouse pointer over a "pass-trough square", as shown on the pic below

• It just makes it unclear when posting on the forum (like in OP).

[Cunningcairn]

I then "Undo" the movement, and they return to their original position:




Notice how the passthrough tiles have all now disappeared, and the brown dots too! Obviously this is a consequence of using the Undo button! You can get them to appear again just by clicking on the unit.

It's a shame this was not made clear at the time.
[/quote]

Wow well done sorting that out.