Hey all,
I've just been dithering around in my mind... which in itself is a scary thing to do, but I came up with something and I don't know how it got there... but I'd be interested in others opinions.
Lets say I organised a 3 day competition. The idea was going to be 2 games per day for 3 days.
Games 1, 2 and 3 would be 'themed', games 4, 5 and 6 would be 'open'.
You would supply only one list for the entire competition, but in the first games you would be guaranteed to be playing only people within your own book (or those which are appended to by the last few pages of the books). You would supply points for the overall comp starting on day 2, but the first 3 games would be totally random draws against historical (or semi historical) opponents.
My reasons for thinking this is that some armies may get a raw deal in the opening draw (for instance 'Ancient British vs Saka' with the Saka gaining initiative and selecting Steppes) and by making the whole first day 'historical' you can possibly pull some people into the comp who may not go to open comps. Additionally, it would increase the likelyhood of 'dominant armies' facing each other and thus reducing their overall points if they get draws. I'm aware that at Can-Con the top seeded players all used shooty cavalry armies. Now, it may certainly be the skills of these players that got them into the position and I'm not trying to say that it wasn't, but it also may have been that these armies had never fought an historical opponent and had perhaps an easier time of it than others.
What I HOPE would happen is that at the end of the first 3 games the player from each book with the highest levels of skill (and luck) would have 60-75 points and then duke it out for the top position, instead of having an exceptional Ancient British player getting 30 points because he got back to back draws.
The problem I see with it (expecially as more and more books come out) is that you can end up with ONE Aztec player who has nobody to play. My only solution to that would be that I would attempt to keep it to themes, and the extras would make up a 'random' group and play amongst themselves. So if you had only 1 player from 4 different books then they would make a pool of their own.
I'm not sure if I've got over the entire concept, but I'd be interested in anyone's opinion.
Ian
mixed "Themed" and "Open" competitions
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Recalling less formalistic bygone days under a rules set of the past millennium, it's easy to do the first round matchmaking historically along with matching people who don't usually play each other, then double track the further rounds with the top pool competing based directly on results and those faring less well matched by a combination of all factors. With defined Themes and generally accepted theme clusters for later rounds or when the draw for a particular book for round 1 is one person, FoG would make it easier still.
Mike
Mike
Hmm, not such a bad thought Lawrence. I could put a list on the net saying the books will become open upon 4 entries being made... thus you put your name down for the list you want, and when 4 people have put their name down they become available to all and sundry.lawrenceg wrote:If you specified the themes and limited the entries to each theme on a first come first serve basis, you could ensure that there was a reasonable number in each theme. Or just don't run that theme if there are less than 4 entries.
Hmm... have to put my thinking cap on.
Ian
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spike
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I would be an encouragement to enter competitions early, to get others to follow you into that periodDaiSho wrote:Hmm, not such a bad thought Lawrence. I could put a list on the net saying the books will become open upon 4 entries being made... thus you put your name down for the list you want, and when 4 people have put their name down they become available to all and sundry.lawrenceg wrote:If you specified the themes and limited the entries to each theme on a first come first serve basis, you could ensure that there was a reasonable number in each theme. Or just don't run that theme if there are less than 4 entries.
Hmm... have to put my thinking cap on.
Ian
Spike
At the Zaragoza (Spain) competition in June, they're going for a restricted theme based around the struggle for power between Rome and Carthage. The only lists allowed are:
RISE OF ROME :
* Mid Republican Roman
* Gallic
* Pyrrhic
* Later Carthaginian
* Illyrian
* Ancient Spanish
* Later Macedonian
* Attalid Pergamene
* Numidian or Early Moorish
* Later Seleucid
* Later Ptolemaic
* Later Jewish
IMMORTAL FIRE :
* Classical Greek
* Thracian (No Getae)
* Kyrenean Greek
* Early Carthaginian
* Syracusan
* Early Successor
* Galatian
* Hellenistic Greek
With the added restriction that these lists have to fit in between 278 BC and 146 BC.
It'll be interesting to see if it works.
RISE OF ROME :
* Mid Republican Roman
* Gallic
* Pyrrhic
* Later Carthaginian
* Illyrian
* Ancient Spanish
* Later Macedonian
* Attalid Pergamene
* Numidian or Early Moorish
* Later Seleucid
* Later Ptolemaic
* Later Jewish
IMMORTAL FIRE :
* Classical Greek
* Thracian (No Getae)
* Kyrenean Greek
* Early Carthaginian
* Syracusan
* Early Successor
* Galatian
* Hellenistic Greek
With the added restriction that these lists have to fit in between 278 BC and 146 BC.
It'll be interesting to see if it works.
Sounds like a good theme to me.jlopez wrote:At the Zaragoza (Spain) competition in June, they're going for a restricted theme based around the struggle for power between Rome and Carthage. The only lists allowed are:
RISE OF ROME :
* Mid Republican Roman
* Gallic
* Pyrrhic
* Later Carthaginian
* Illyrian
* Ancient Spanish
* Later Macedonian
* Attalid Pergamene
* Numidian or Early Moorish
* Later Seleucid
* Later Ptolemaic
* Later Jewish
IMMORTAL FIRE :
* Classical Greek
* Thracian (No Getae)
* Kyrenean Greek
* Early Carthaginian
* Syracusan
* Early Successor
* Galatian
* Hellenistic Greek
With the added restriction that these lists have to fit in between 278 BC and 146 BC.
It'll be interesting to see if it works.
A bit like the themes at Campaign only not as tight.
Last year we had 25 FOG players and 50 FOW players at the largest competition in Alcoy (near Alicante). This year we were down to 16 or so ancients players and about the same as last year in FOW. The fall in numbers is partly due to the recession but mostly to the lack of new players in that particular period. The downward progression has been steady since 2003 when we regularly pulled 30 ancients players so the change of rules isn't to blame IMHO. It's more of a process of attrition as people drift out of the hobby due to a host of reasons and aren't replaced by fresh blood. In fact, I would say 90% of new players on the competition scene are playing FOW and within clubs FOW players are much more active in recruiting new players.DaiSho wrote:Be interested to see how it works.jlopez wrote:At the Zaragoza (Spain) competition in June, they're going for a restricted theme based around the struggle for power between Rome and Carthage.
Just out of interest, how many movers and shakers do you get at a large annual competition in Spain?
Ian
The Spanish translation of FOG may help boost numbers a bit as we do have quite a few players who won't play until they can read the rules in Spanish but I fear it won't reverse the trend of falling numbers.
Julian
PS Although attendance may seem low compared to the UK you have to bear in mind distances in Spain. The nearest competitions are often a couple hours drive away and most are around five or seven hours drive from home. As a result, the bulk of players are usually from the club organizing the competition.
Nah - I'm in Australia, so I was wondering because our 'national comp' had about 40 players. Wondering if we could do the same sort of theme successfully given numbers. I think UK get away with themes because even if only 25% turn up you've still got numbers.jlopez wrote:PS Although attendance may seem low compared to the UK you have to bear in mind distances in Spain. The nearest competitions are often a couple hours drive away and most are around five or seven hours drive from home. As a result, the bulk of players are usually from the club organizing the competition.
Ian
Well, one potential issue is army availability which is specially acute in Spain where a lot of players only have one army. If you can draw up and publish a list of spare armies available for loan, you might be able to attract some players who wouldn't otherwise be able to play. Other than that, it all depends on how motivated players are. I suspect we will get reduced numbers this year (which isn't saying much) but if the club sticks with the format it may grow in future years.DaiSho wrote:Nah - I'm in Australia, so I was wondering because our 'national comp' had about 40 players. Wondering if we could do the same sort of theme successfully given numbers. I think UK get away with themes because even if only 25% turn up you've still got numbers.jlopez wrote:PS Although attendance may seem low compared to the UK you have to bear in mind distances in Spain. The nearest competitions are often a couple hours drive away and most are around five or seven hours drive from home. As a result, the bulk of players are usually from the club organizing the competition.
Ian
Julian